URGENT-CA-PHS Shelter (Bay Area)

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Jin

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 10:13 am


(Cross post from CG)

Cordelia, that would be WONDERFUL!! It completely changes my plans, but that´s okay! That really cuts my driving time down a lot, and saves me the money on a hotel room.

Please email me and lets try to coordinate this a little better.

THANK YOU!!!!

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:03 pm


T-- I remember now! Was that Sara B.? I forgot about her. Her husband was a GSCBA president, too. They are in San Jose, if I remember. I´ll email the rest...

pigpal

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:31 pm


Josephine - this is a different one, she´s in San Bruno.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:34 pm


Hmmm... Juliet? I didn´t know she was a judge.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:35 pm


Just got a whole list of big show breeders in the area. Will email to T.

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Teresa

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:39 pm


She was judging when I met her. Granted it was a little 4-H show at the fair.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:54 pm


Hmmm... Don´t think she´s licensed. She is the developer of the new Tan variety of cavies. Lots of breeding in perfecting the new varieties (so they become consistent).

They don´t require 4-H shows to be sanctioned or have licensed judges, but it is true that she might have become a judge in the last couple of years.

I just emailed my first list of numbers.
Last edited by Josephine on Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jahcqui

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:28 pm


I´ll be sure to warn all the decent, honest, caring breeders I know that some overzelous people might be contacting them. What´s the definition of rescue? I thought it was saving animals that are being malnourished and mistreated. NOT animals owned by people you dislike.

And what´s this about a rail road???? Gee, when some OTHER people tried to do this we were chastised for not staying in our own back yard. OR were we chastised just because you didn´t like us?

nastybreeder

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:57 pm


Railroad would be what they are trying to do to the breeders.

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Teresa

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:35 pm


I´ll be sure to warn all the decent, honest, caring breeders I know that some overzelous people might be contacting them.
No worries, never got any call backs from the breeders around here. Gave up on them before I even got started. That was just an amusing idea anyway.
What´s the definition of rescue? I thought it was saving animals that are being malnourished and mistreated.
You would think a ´rescuer´ would know the definition of rescue. You know full well the area where we disagree, and that´s breeding and pet overpopulation and animals being put down in shelters as a result. Do you want to raise the debate again here?
NOT animals owned by people you dislike.
And where exactly did you get that notion? I sure as heck don´t have to like or dislike anybody for MY definition of a rescue. It´s what they do with their animals, the policies they go by, the care they provide, their adoption criteria, their stance on breeding and showing, what they espouse publicly and the examples they set that I use to judge whether or not someone is a ´rescue.´

And to quote from the policies page on my cavy rescue website: "To anyone who breeds or shows as well as rescues, we applaud your efforts for whatever rescue you do." I think it´s nice that breeders also take in "malnourished and mistreated" animals. You know, if someone who bred didn´t do that, I would consider them a real low life. But sorry, no, that doesn´t make them a ´rescue´ in the traditional sense of the word.
And what´s this about a rail road????
Well, it´s done and over now. And in case you missed the national and international media, it actually wasn´t a railroad in the any normal sense of a rescue railroad. And I still very much stand by my criticism of sending pigs from one corner of the continent to another. You want to dredge up the past? Be my guest. Under normal circumstances, it is not necessary to ship pigs to find them homes. Large rescues happen all across the country throughout the year. There were quite a few this year all over. But with 700 homeless pigs in one area at one time AND the fact that we just had a huge placement of well over 300 guinea pigs less than a year ago, and 60-70 of them still remained, and the rescues here are active and full already, we needed to do something out of the ordinary. And out of the ordinary it was. AND, we got shelters and rescues involved all across the country. And we spread the message about rescue and adoption and care of the animals all across the country and then some. I was well aware of the population issues in the areas where we sent pigs and we worked with all the rescues in the area to make this a win/win for everyone. I surely hope this kind of situation never happens again.

So, back to your point, "OR were we chastised just because you didn´t like us?" Chastised? Good grief. I met you. I liked you. What´s the problem here? It´s got nothing to do with anything other than breeding and showing. We philosophically disagree in a big way.

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Teresa

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:40 pm


Railroad would be what they are trying to do to the breeders.
What happened? Did some breeder list finally figure out what was going on? Railroad the breeders? Railroad them into what?

You know, there are a number of breeders on this forum who manage to participate quite intelligently. Why don´t you ask them if they´ve been ´railroaded.´ ?

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Ciaytee
Almost Inbred

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:43 pm


So how many of us here haven´t responded because:

1) The posters are obviously unable or unwilling to realize the full magnitude of the pig overpopulation, so responding would be pointless.

2) You´re just too angry and amazed to put together a complete sentence.
----------------------------

Oops. Too late. Well, how many except for Teresa.
Last edited by Ciaytee on Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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leebee

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:48 pm


Both for me, Ciaytee.

I wish Evangeline would show up...

Jahcqui

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 6:50 pm


I´ve seen the magnitude of pig overpopulation, that´s not the issue. When I tried to help, I encountered quite a lot of greif. Teresa gave me greif about ear tags. I´m fine with that - we disagree. Other than that, yes, we had no problems with each other. That was the least of it. Others gave me different hassles and I was led to believe that Teresa supported their behavior. I was giving my time, money, and other resources to help and I was treated as a second class citizen because my hobby involves breeding and exhibiting. That makes me very sad, because I am less likely to help a rescue in the future - it was that bad. So the applauding breeders that help rescue statement is hard for me to believe.

What I take issue with in this thread is the attitude of "I´ve got a few breeders that I´d like to harrass". Whether it´s a popular notion or not, breeders have the right to breed. Most of us take great care of our animals and sell within the fancy, not unload herds upon herds into the pet store system. I too have a problem with Ms. Betty Beebop who thinks she can make a quick buck by breeding thousands of pigs. I´ve been known to get people in touch with the local rescue if they are looking for a pet and not a show pig. I misread and I thought you wanted to harrass them more than to take fosters. (I was also giving a hard time about fostering, since I´m a breeder and someone worried I might breed the fosters. Seriously! People were that childish.)

But the other thing is that the rail road that was set up out of FL last year involved animals that had mostly already been adopted. I don´t see how carting them to homes out-of-state is any better/worse than carting them across the country without homes. It was certainly better than leaving them outside in the FL heat, where the ´rescue´ person had them.

Julian
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 8:35 pm


Sometimes we need to agree to disagree agreeably. ( motherly smile)

I help with rescue and have seen the horrid graphic problems with breeding. I agree that there are good breeders out there. Most of the issues I´ve seen are with backyard irresponsible breeders. In a perfect world and in all my heart, everyone would love and want to adopt the lovable rescue mutts. I realize that show quality is difficult to acheive and the extra non-showable babies concern me. That does not make either you or me a bad person, just different in our opinions. I have very strong opinions about breeding and I practice them. That is what is right for me.

Perhaps we could all try to work together for the good of the piggies? I´m just a mom who may be totally naive. I´d like to believe we can all get along despite our philisophical differences. I think and hope that we are all doing the best that we can. Not one of us is perfect but hopefully, we can pick ourselves up and learn from our mistakes.

Welcome Jacqui. I´m new and haven´t seen you post before.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:37 pm


I´m sure there are responsible breeders out there. Probably Jahcqui is one. But for every responsible breeder, there are also breeders who are not. A 4-Her wrote me today asking about treating bumble foot in a pig. He´s lost alot of weight and in pain. Her friends tell her to put the pig down. She says she has no money for a vet. She asks in another note how to treat a pig that was returned with a respiratory infection. She´d given "lots" of pigs to this person. She mentions losing a really nice Abyssinian boar a few months ago.

She breeds 6 or 7 different varieties. I can only guess she has quite a few pigs.

Without a doubt, I feel people who breed pigs should not view them as disposable, nor should they take on a regimen of breeding pigs without also assuming responsiblity for their care and having the funds to do so. A breeder truly needs to have a grasp of guinea pig health and must be responsible for the health of their animals.

There are issues of practicality (some illnesses are difficult to manage and buy only a limited amount of time) but basic health care should definitely be provided their animals. I am infinitely frustrated when someone writes me with a problem that cannot be treated at home and expects me to give them some magic bullet.

Whether you have a pet or breed pigs, a person has a responsibility for these lives.

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Ciaytee
Almost Inbred

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:25 pm


I think that what upsets me most is that in every conversation I´ve read that talks about the ugly side of breeding, a breeder pops up with a defense. I know that not every single breeder is irresponsible. Not every single one backbreeds and/or doesn´t provide vet care. Not every single one is unethical or hateful or even just a mean person.

It´s as though they think the exception totally disproves the rule.

Jahcqui, I don´t know you, but from what Teresa´s said, I´m willing to believe that you, personally, are a responsible breeder. I know they exist. I´ve even known one. But for every responsible breeder, there´s 10 who aren´t. And I get angry when people try to defend an industry by stating that they (and their friends) are not that way.

Using that logic, then cigarettes don´t cause lung cancer because Grandpa smoked 3 packs a day for 60 years and died at 102 in a car wreck. And since Grandpa suffered no ill effects from smoking, then how dare we indict the cigarette companies or try to get them to take responsibility for the people they killed.

It just doesn´t make any sense.

Julian
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:25 pm


Lynx,

You summed up my feelings much better than I ever could.

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Teresa

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:56 pm


Ciaytee, you read too much into my comment. Liking someone personally doesn´t mean I think they are a responsible breeder. In fact, before Julian posted her schmoopy reply, I was planning on saying this:
Most of us take great care of our animals and sell within the fancy, not unload herds upon herds into the pet store system. I too have a problem with Ms. Betty Beebop who thinks she can make a quick buck by breeding thousands of pigs. I´ve been known to get people in touch with the local rescue if they are looking for a pet and not a show pig.
These statements are supposed to assure me that your heart is in the right place, that you do ´the right thing´ and you are in the ´responsible´ breeder crowd. None of those statements assure me of anything as it relates to my position on breeding. We can go into a whole breeder/shower debate if you want to.

There were some other points I wanted to make, but I´ll let it go.

Time and time and time again, we constantly hear about the so-called "responsible" breeder. Well, I´m not surprised no breeder has ever bothered to challenge and/or debate point-by-point the now long-standing article submitted by Josephine on the Cavy Spirit site about the definition of the "responsible" breeder. Show me someone who steps up to the plate of that definition, then we´ll talk about breeding. No one I know of meets it--and it´s not like it´s not possible. And no one I know of has the chutzpah to argue against any of the points that make up the definition of the ´responsible´ breeder. It´s been there for going on a year now. And I know darn well the breeders read the page. http://www.cavyspirit.com/responsiblebreeder.htm I get enough low-brow, uninspired hate mail from them to prove it.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Aug 20, 2002 11:55 pm


I thought Josephine made some great points when she first posted her opinion of what constituted a responsible breeder at CG. It deserved to be highlighted. At the very least it should give breeders something to think about.

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