Rescues and Shelters

pinta

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:18 am


i4u, whether or not you think you are not slamming rescues, it sure looks that way to me.

Doesn't to me. As Nuts has said - she's a rescue too and has rescued quite possibly for longer than you have. It's ludicrous to think she would be slamming herself. She is familiar with private rescue, being one, and with shelters from working in one. That does put her in the position of being able to to offer more insight than someone just in rescue or someone just involved in shelters. And that is all I see here - insight, and invaluable insight at that.

And, like I pointed out in my original post, I go to that shelter every week bearing food for their
rabbits. So you're telling me that they suspected that the guinea pig would be better off in a snake's
mouth than with me? Come on!


I think you need to question why it didn't matter to them if the pig had a home or was snake food. It would appear they wanted those pigs out any way possible. First come first serve. So either they were out to shaft you personally - why? Or they do not regard cavies as anything more than a valueless rodent taking up valuable space - how can you educate them?

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:11 am


Here is where I see i4u's "ludicrous" slamming of rescues:
Do you know how many rescues call a shelter in a given week? Do you know how many ask for laws to be bent because they are a rescue? Do you know how many "rescues" are in that county already who have animals not within the law and have been that way for months? It takes 15 minutes to hand an animal to a rescue, not so quick getting them back when things go wrong.

Do you know how many will tell a bold faced lie when confronted about the unlicensed dog they've had for 3 months, not UTD, never been to the vet? ("oh, he's been here 2 weeks") Are you aware of how many folders are sitting in that facility for "rescues" who have already messed things up so bad the courts have been involved?
Of course I agree that there may be bad rescues out there. However, in the first place, making that judgement against a well-established, licensed rescue (who, by the way, the shelter recently claimed a willingness to work with) would clearly be reckless stereotyping to the nth degree.

In the second place, I strongly doubt that the credibility of the rescue was in question. Given the fact that we are in the process of working with the shelter on their policies, the reputation of the rescue, and the fact that I reguarly feed their rabbits, I doubt that the shelter worker was considering the factors about bad rescues that i4u is mentioning.

That is my point. It was a careless, individual decision that the shelter worker knew was wrong--or else she wouldn't have tried to lie about it.

In that case, what is "ludicrous" is i4u's absolute refusal to acknowledge the fact that some shelters--whether it is policy or individual actions or just routine practices--do not act in the best interest of the animals.

Instead, i4u continues to talk about bad rescues and defend these shelters' decisions not to hold the animals on those grounds.

And I will continue to reiterate that it is not likely that the credibility of the rescue was in question.

Therefore, there must be some other reason for this shelter worker's lack of concern for the animals in her care.

imanut4u

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:57 am


Chary, you have turned my posts into being about you. Anything I have posted has been collective and the aim has been for you to possibly understand the other side just a tiny bit.

You indicated you know this person, you come in every week to feed the rabbits. If you have a relationship with this one shelter, can't you ask them why snakefood was acceptable when you had a hold. Seems to me there was not a firm "hold" in place as it wasn't one, but two animals taken off hold --- WHY? It would seem your relationship is not as solid as you now state it is.

The responsibility is yours to set up an arrangement and crystal clear understanding with any shelter.

You yourself have expressed less than admiration for a cat/dog rescue taking on guinea pigs, rescue is rescue right? It would appear you don't think it's always the case anymore than I do.

Sure, you are frustrated, sure you are angry, so what are you going to do about it? Keep being angry? Say they don't care (MAYBE THEY DON'T), or open up the lines of communication and know exactly how things will work in the future.

You mention the Bunny Bunch ---

The Bunny Bunch is a non-profit SPCR, well-known, well-respected, with chapters all over California. There was no reason for the shelter to doubt my credibility. They simply made a decision in the interest of expediency and then tried to cover it up.

okay, you go into this shelter every week to feed the rabbits so obviously they keep rabbits for adoption at the shelter.

Can the shelter screen potential adopters? If this shelter cannot screen adopters, snake food is irrelevant.

Honest question here, what is the relationship with the Bunny Bunch and this shelter?

Do they (BB, since this seems to be relevant in your relationship with the shelter) ask the shelter to call them when a rabbit comes in and do they come to get them?

OR

Do they want to be notified when a rabbit is going to be euthanized, in hopes that rabbit may find a home from the shelter, leaving room in the rescue for those actually "out of time".

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:06 pm


It was my impression that Nuts was sharing her personal experiences on both sides and trying to explain some of the factors working on both sides.

For the life of me, I can't see what you are worked up about. Sometimes crappy things happen and we have no idea why they happen to us. Alot of the ideas tossed out here were presented in an effort to get you to think outside the box and look at the big picture. Your case may be a "small picture" -- an individual who for reasons unknown made a bad decision.

Your job (should you hope this never happens again) is to find out what the policies are, get them changed if necessary, and -- looking at Nuts advice -- try to see things from their side also.

Not to mention, mistakes happen. On purpose or accidental.

But I just do not understand what problem you are having with Nuts. Her post in no way implied that your particular shelter had or has faults.

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:20 pm


You yourself have expressed less than admiration for a cat/dog rescue taking on guinea pigs, rescue is rescue right? It would appear you don't think it's always the case anymore than I do.
Now you're stretching my words. I said nothing about the quality of the cat/dog rescue, only that they (by their own admission) did not have any knowledge of guinea pigs, and I expressed shock and bewilderment that the shelter would release the animals to them when a guinea pig rescue was on the way.

It is not my "relationship" with the shelter that I am stressing, it is the absurdity of the notion that the shelter worker was acting out of suspicion of the legitimacy of the rescue.

Yes, yes, I am well aware that I need to establish a rock-solid relationship with every shelter on God's green earth and provide them written proof that I am not a sausage factory (although it appears that they don't care).

This is NOT about me. This is about a guinea pig that had a home and instead wound up as food.

I am NOT taking this as a personal attack. What I find offensive is the fact that you refuse to acknowedge the fact that some shelters do not act in the best interest of the animals in their care and instead are only considering the most expedient option.

imanut4u

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:36 pm


"What I find offensive is the fact that you refuse to acknowedge the fact that some shelters do not act in the best interest of the animals in their care and instead are only considering the most expedient option."

Did I not type in caps MAYBE THEY DON'T (care)?

And I've asked if they can screen haven't I? You are bent on the fact they do not have the best interest, have you considered the shelter policy and or law? If they cannot screen, snakefood is irrelevant.

I'm sorry they said they'd hold for you and didn't. That needs to be addressed with them to get to the bottom of why.

Unless you get more involved there and have your questions answered, you'll always be angry.

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:40 pm


For the life of me, I can't see what you are worked up about
Really?

1) The fact that a guinea pig died needlessly
2) The fact that this shelter, and other shelters, have resisted my efforts to find homes for the animals in their care.
3) The fact that i4u is making excuses for shelters and blaming rescues for the shelters' poor decisions regarding the welfare of their animals.

Most of all, I guess I'm disappointed. It's not that I expected shelters to fall down on their knees and thank me for driving all over hell and creation to take animals off their hands. But I did NOT expect them to resist me.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:16 pm


You should understand what I was referring to -- your being worked up about Nuts' comments.

Obviously you are upset with the incident. The thrust of the discussion was to try to avoid it in the future, not dwell on what happened.

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:37 pm


ok, I understand the idea that shelters and rescues need to come to an agreement about holds and exchange policies.

But I'm just not willing to leave it at that, because I think these situations bring up some larger questions, for example:

Who exactly are we "rescuing" from? Rescuers are discourraged from taking private surrenders and from rescuing pigs from even the worst pet shops. So we wait until the shelter gets them, and if the shelters don't want us to rescue them, then what? Should we then at least entertain the idea that, if we take private surrenders or even rescue some of the sick ones from pet stores, they have less chance of winding up as snake food?

User avatar
lyliecarter

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:30 pm


I'm not a rescuer, so I don't really have a lot to say, so feel free to ignore my post.

I live in a small (5,000ppl) town and 2 local and nearby pet stores sell guinea pigs. The local shelter has NO guinea pigs there. Ever. I called them when I was looking into getting pigs, and they said that they rarely get them. A local feed store took in 3 dumps and keeps them in her store as pets. I'm pretty sure another store gets dumps, but I'm almost positive that they either turn them into snake food or use them as breeding stock.

I do understand that rescues should take shelter animals, as they can be put down. I completely get that. But what about people like me? Someone who lives in a small town and someday might want to change the lives of a few of the pigs in my town? There's no shelter animals, so I don't rescue at all? Like I said, I have no experience taking in unwanted animals, but Char's concerns interest me, because someday I plan on rescuing/fostering unwanted pigs and we have the same questions.

Susan

pinta

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:36 pm


Charybdis - you are making this personal. From your comments I assume you would prefer that Nuts censor herself and not mention rescues/shelter situations that are less than stellar. She is only mentioning personal experiences that help explain why shelters have the policies they do. (You must be aware of doubtful rescues(collectors posing as, for instance) giving legit rescues a bad name, youself.) Because she has related less than positive example of firsthand knowledge you interpret it as a slam. It's her experience, nothing more. And it is a perspective that helps people to understand policies at OTHER shelters. Again, it's not about you.

I have no idea how well you know the shelter - all I know is you bring food to the rabbits weekly(note - I may have nissed pertinent info here or in other threads). I have no idea what written agreements you have or who you deal with. But it doesn't matter. This isn't about you personally. It's Nut's perspective of shelters and rescues based on her perspective. And in case you missed it. Nuts does rescue. So why would she intentionally slam herself. She is speaking a truth. You seem to want a cover-up or a lovefest of rescues, turning a blind eye to the problems that exist with some of them..

At this point you are like a dog chasing it's tail - going in circles and getting nowhere fast.

Yeah, a crappy thing happened to you. And guess what - it will probably happen again and again to rescuers all over. Insight from a shelter worker AND a rescuer may be help prevent some of these reoccurrences. If this thread was only for venting and the only response you wanted were outrage and sympathy - you should have said so right off the top.

Personally I think the perspective from the shelter's side is invaluable and could be used to improve the rescue/shelter relationship in the future.

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:07 pm


You seem to want a cover-up or a lovefest of rescues, turning a blind eye to the problems that exist with some of them..
So i4u is accusing me of looking down on other rescues (ie. the dog-cat rescue) and Pinta thinks I want a lovefest. So let me correct both impressions in bold print so that I can find it when I need to quote myself again later:

I am well aware that there are terrible, irresponsible people masquerading as rescuers and causing harm to animals. Did I not begin this thread by expressing outrage that the PHS pigs were stolen by a collector posing as a rescue? Furthermore, anyone who knows me knows why I started rescuing guinea pigs--that it was in direct response to what I feared was a rescue gone bad in my area.
the only response you wanted were outrage and sympathy
Pinta, scroll up 3 posts and read what I wrote:
ok, I understand the idea that shelters and rescues need to come to an agreement about holds and exchange policies.
But I'm just not willing to leave it at that, because I think these situations bring up some larger questions
Does it still sound like I'm just pitching for sympathy here? Or could it possibly be that I would really like to hear some input on the broader issues implicated--such as why we go around slamming pet store workers but somehow the bad things that shelters do gets swept under the rug?

I'm not interested in your sympathy. I don't even care whether or not you're outraged. I want to hear what people think. .

I will ask again. Why do we go around shrieking about pet stores with poor conditions who sell guinea pigs to anyone, yet completely refuse to discuss shelters with poor conditions who sell guinea pigs to anyone (and for considerably less $$ at that) except to say that the rescue needs to develop a better relationship with the shelter?

Is that all there is to say about it?

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