A Fraud and a Charlatan

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Erinspigs

Post   » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:12 pm


He may not be touching her but he is humiliating her. Aren't we splitting hairs because it is someone we like and would like to see successful? At first I also tried to justify, talk it away, but after reading her/his statements it angers me.

Not arguing with you bpatters because I read more about how Trump and other republicans have done worse in many news articles. But that doesn't make what he did less hurtful for me, that others are pigs doesn't excuse another for being one, or on their way to being one. Like my old man, I don't have a party affiliation and find it troubling how opposite sides react when something like this comes out. Predictable, the accuser party side is always trying to make it the end of the world and the guilty party side is making it less than it really is.

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Catie Cavy
Supporter 2011-2017

Post   » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:47 pm


I agree with Erinspigs. We should look at the behavior, not the party affiliation. I was sorry to see Al Franken included in this latest round of revelations, but I don’t think we would excuse this same behavior from a Republican.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:54 pm


If you want perfection in your politicians, you may as well give up now. There's not ONE out there that hasn't screwed up in some way, shape or for, just like all the rest of us have screwed up as something.

I don't think anyone is excusing Franken. But I'm also not consigning him to the same category as Trump and Moore, both sexual predators with a predilection for pubescent girls, who have never apologized and have rationalized their behavior to an extreme degree.

I also don't think he's humiliating her. She's fully clothed, he's not touching her. If other incidents come out where he IS humiliating someone, I'm willing to change my mind.

But I would be willing to bet a considerable amount of money that we're going to see a rash of charges, whether trumped up or real, against Democrats, alleging sexual misconduct. That's the way the Republicans are doing business these days -- smear the opposition rather than confronting the problem head-on.

Erinspigs

Post   » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:32 pm


I do agree with a lot of what you wrote bpatters, perfection is impossible and everyone is going to make stupid mistakes.

I don't defend any Republicans for similar or worse behavior, off with their heads I say. But I don't like the comparing of this person is worse and their party worse because of xyz. Damn, I hate to agree with my old man on political issues but I'm afraid the two party problem he's always hammering does have some validity.

I have to disagree about the humiliation, I do think he is humiliating her. She said she felt humiliated and by his own apology, he said we must listen and believe what women, when put in these situations say and feel. I am paraphrasing a bit but that is what I read, although it could also be the kissing incident which I believe happened. Are we not believing the person because no one saw it? If we do that, how many other women have been violated where no one saw it. Because he's AL Franken we should not believe her? (And I'm not saying anyone here doesn't believe her - I keep reading news reports, well no one really saw it, like that makes it ok.

None of this is ok but I don't think Franken should resign either. I think he can still do more good for our country but jeez lets stop throwing stones and get to work on issues and have these guys, all of them, stop the sophomoric (at best) and sexual assaults ( being the worst case) whether it's a Republican or a Democrat.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:13 am


She's apparently not as puritanical as she made herself out to be: http://verifiedpolitics.com/rest-photos-videos-franken-tweedens-uso-tour-just-emerged/

I'm afraid I don't see how this relates at all to te number of political parties we have. How would more help?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:24 am


I do think there will be dirt digging on dems in an attempt to cloud the issues.

That is a very telling article.
It should also be noted that Tweeden just signed a book deal with Sinclair Broadcasting Group, which has also inked deals with prominent conservative voices, including Sebastian Gorka, Steve Bannon, and the Mercers.

As evidence has begun to spread that perhaps Tweeden had a political agenda behind her decision to name Franken, a growing movement of support has coalesced behind the Minnesota Senator.
Sinclair Broadcasting Group is a propaganda machine of the worst order.

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Wheekers3

Post   » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:45 pm


It bothered me immensely at first. I have had hands put on me in very awkward places by complete strangers. A few times. Yes, he didn't not touch, but her being asleep is the bad part to me.

He has had no one else step forward with accusations. This is not his pattern. That helps me. It's almost like you need a scorecard, to score and see who is worse. I tend to go by jury rules. Is the person deceptive? If so, you should throw out their "testimony" If they seem honest and open, I tend to believe them.

Franken has been upfront from the get go. He seems to be genuinely open and remorseful. The ones with many victims, and have been caught in endless lies, I would not trust with a ten foot pole. Names do not need be mentioned.

Erinspigs

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:47 am


I don't know if more would help, but something different would be nice. Not having an affiliation maybe it is easier to wee what I'm seeing. Now the woman is being held to be "not as puritanical" Each side does the exact same things and then shouts the other is worse. The people lose

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:38 am


Franken is trying to avoid that and emphasizing that it is important for women to speak up.

Erinspigs

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:48 am


My gut reaction: I don't think he should resign. Up until now, and this incident, everything I've read and seen about him has mostly been positive. However, the incident is another illustration of how polarized we've become.

Not that little ol me maters a hill of beans but I don't know what to make of his statements. He is saying the right things, for women to speak up, to be heard and taken seriously, but that photo is HIM, Al Franken. He was the one with the stupid grin, hands reaching for breasts of a sleeping woman. He was the one forcibly kissing a woman. His statements sound to me like he's speaking about someone other than himself. It sounds like another type tactic to get out of trouble.

Or maybe he is genuine, I can't tell any more. In any event, I think he should be investigated. The worry with an investigation is that it will be a witch hunt by the other side. The other side will be accused of doing what the side they are investigating would do in the same situation if events were reversed, and on and on. They both do the same unproductive things, that's what i see although I still do lean towards one side's philosophy more than the other though and wish it they could put all this aside.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:20 am


He has been very proactive for women's rights. We are not perfect. People sometimes do stupid things (at least my stupid things generally do not cause other people pain).

He has encouraged a senate investigation of his behavior. He has not badmouthed a single woman or said they are lying.

But as I think I said before, this is a distraction from people who have done much, much worse in all levels of government and business, for that matter.

Erinspigs

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:53 pm


Lynx, I'm more a part of we, than not. I am more liberal thinking than conservative. There are however, some issues where I am more conservative. I think that is how I came to my viewpoint, philosophically speaking. It seemed to me, party affiliation meant you had to agree with all viewpoints, or at least all "the major' ones. Also because the other side will relentlessly attack for any improper act one must always defend the party line or person, not matter how wrong. I can see that loyalty on a sports team, a family, etc but not in politics because we the people are the losers when we place politicians ahead of us. Just my option. And Lynx, I really doubt you do many, if any, stupid things!!!

That Franken has not badmouthed any women is good, he's doing what he is supposed to be doing. I was taught you don't get credit for doing what you are suppose to do when it very easy to do it. I agree there are those in Government who have done much worse, but I don't think that alone should let Franken off the hook.

I watched John Oliver, who I love, the other night, and he had a video of one of Trumps's mouth pieces responding to a question about one of Trumps stupid moves (pick any number of them) The mouth piece began answering the question about Trump''s behavior with all the things Democrats have done wrong, the emails, Bill Clinton's infidelity etc etc etc. Oliver stopped the video and went on a rant, correctly in my opinion, because these other things happened doesn't make what Trump did OK. It works both ways but I just wish if something is wrong, or someone does something wrong we can call it wrong. Same goes if someone does something great, or has a gear idea, we can all agree instead of finding fault because it didn't come from the right party. I am hearing more people my age agree. I believe in 20 - 30 years something will be very different about the party system we now have. Not sure what it will look like but pretty sure it's going to be different. I think the polarizing system we now have not working.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:09 pm



Erinspigs

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:30 pm


Frankly I'm a little surprised, this is terrible bpatters. The "source" claiming to be Frankesn military escort in this article is nothing more than an anonymous person on twitter, named TT. If her credibility is questionable, that's one thing but this type "journalism" is pathetic and exactly what I'm talking about. It really does speak for itself and we are sinking lower and lower, both sides of the aisle.

Erinspigs

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:32 pm


And I suppose some would then say well Fox news does abc, yes they do. The are pathetic also, 2 wrong don't make a right. What ever happend to the high road?

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Wheekers3

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:56 pm


As far as Party goes I keep a sort of score book. I learned this election I need to pay full attention to everyone. Sometimes I will listen to the Senate and get a decent idea of what their thoughts are on topics. Nothing excessive. After a while you realize whats going on and who on BOTH sides you agree with or don't. You will find decent people in both parties. You also figure out the jerks.

Erinspigs

Post   » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:14 pm


Exactly Wheekers, I only wish more people would do that. If there were, I don't think there would be any problem.

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