Hi everyone,
I've been reading through this site and every other since I got my rescue pig, Bruno, 5 weeks ago. He's now around 9 months, I'm the 5th home, he had a brother (or friend) who already passed in the previous home and has been alone ever since. Here's a summary of everything that has been going on ever since 20th Dec:
On the evening of bringing Bruno home, I noticed he was sneezing more than I would like and also his breathing was wheezing from time to time. The next day (21st) I brought him to see an exotic vet and agreed to put him on Bactrim as I was about to leave him to friend over Christmas. After I got back, he had lost his appetite and was losing a lot of weight. His weight at the vet was 991g, but when I got him back he was down to 920g and kept losing.
The AB were done but I brought him to a specialiced exotic vet on the 28th. He had two broken incisors (one on top and one on the bottom), but everything else was fine, so I was given Recovery formula (similar to CC) to force feed him until he started again on his own. I also fed him poop from healthy guineas I was fostering for a week. He started to eat on his own, and his weight started to steady around 900g, it was also lower at some points.
A week later his breathing started to worry me again (popping, wheezing, still sneezing a bit) so I brought him to the first vet on 7th Jan and this time she agreed the symptoms were so clear we put him on Baytril, but I was to stop immediately if he stopped eating. We managed until 10th, at which point he started to loose weight and he wasn't making a clear recovery either, so we stopped the meds.
By Saturday 12th he sneezed once white discharge, so I brought him back to the specialized vet on Monday 14th. She decided to do a nasal swab to culture any bacteria and try a round of antihistamine to rule out allergies (which did nothing except make Bruno sleepy). Yesterday (23rd) we finally got the results, which showed to bacteria, none of which pathogenic. We decided to bring him to a cardiologists, who found nothing wrong with his heart. (On the 7th the vet had heard a possible murmur.)
Now, I'm waiting for the special vet to call me today to figure out what to do next. Bruno has not been eating or drinking enough on his own, so he's been on Recovery or CC (I have both now) since the 10th he stopped eating while on Baytril. He does it quite a bit of hay, but nothing else (nothing fresh etc), and is still showing respiratory issues. His previous home apparently gave him nothing fresh, and his only food was hay and market "rodent mix", which I immediately stopped when I got him. I've been offering him fresh things, which he sometimes eats but most often doesn't. The broken incisors might be caused by lack of vitamin C, which he is now receiving at least 50mg daily.
I'm running out of ideas (and money and mental health) trying to figure this out. If I've understood correctly, the next possible options are to do a CT-scan of the head to see if there's something going on around his thorax etc, and/or try steroids in case he has something close to asthma etc. I'm just really after some ideas and support over this whole thing. I'm feeling extremely sad for Bruno, as he is still so young and I was trying to give him a good home after the very negligent places he has been before.
He is the most charming guinea I've ever met and he's very curious and adventurous on his good times. He's also deaf so he's not very vocal. I've had him around other piggies for a few weeks, but he shows absolutely no interest in piggies so I haven't gotten a friend for him yet as we're still trying to solve what's wrong with him
Any ideas?
Mysterious respiratory issues
-
Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
It sounds like you have been doing a great deal to help him.
With the respiratory issues he is having, it might also be worthwhile to nebulize a drug like gentomycin to help knock out whatever bacteria is causing this.
It sounds like you are weighing frequently (daily is recommended). I would also continue to hand feed the best quality food you can to maintain his weight. Will he eat hay? Fresh grass? Some tips for feeding guinea pigs with broken incisors:
www.guinealynx.info/teeth_broken.html
You looked into heart issues. Was he having any signs this could be the problem?
www.guinealynx.info/heart.html
With the respiratory issues he is having, it might also be worthwhile to nebulize a drug like gentomycin to help knock out whatever bacteria is causing this.
It sounds like you are weighing frequently (daily is recommended). I would also continue to hand feed the best quality food you can to maintain his weight. Will he eat hay? Fresh grass? Some tips for feeding guinea pigs with broken incisors:
www.guinealynx.info/teeth_broken.html
You looked into heart issues. Was he having any signs this could be the problem?
www.guinealynx.info/heart.html
Thanks for your reply.
I'm weighing him at least once a day (most often twice) to figure out the amount of CC to give him. Lately, he has been around 870-880g with a few portions (about 10ml/portion) of CC. The teeth have luckily already grown back and his favourite food happens to be hay, but I think he should be eating twice the amount to maintain weight just on hay.
The cardiologist and the special vet found nothing wrong with his heart after an extensive ultra etc. Now I'm on my way to have his head and lungs CT-scanned.. I've already bought a nebulizer he needs medication administered that way, I'll talk to my vet about gentomycin.
I'm weighing him at least once a day (most often twice) to figure out the amount of CC to give him. Lately, he has been around 870-880g with a few portions (about 10ml/portion) of CC. The teeth have luckily already grown back and his favourite food happens to be hay, but I think he should be eating twice the amount to maintain weight just on hay.
The cardiologist and the special vet found nothing wrong with his heart after an extensive ultra etc. Now I'm on my way to have his head and lungs CT-scanned.. I've already bought a nebulizer he needs medication administered that way, I'll talk to my vet about gentomycin.
Hi again,
Here with an update:
Bruno was eventually put on Bactrim, as CT scan from his head and lungs showed infection in both ears and both sides of the lungs. This was three weeks ago, and he was originally put on a two-week course of Bactrim, to see if it would mess with his appetite. He maintained a pretty good appetite, as I kept support feeding him CC the whole time. As a result of this, the vet recommended to keep going for another two weeks as the infection had been going on for quite a long time. Now we are a total of 3 weeks into ABs, Bruno is pretty alert, active, eats on his own (hay, not keen on the fresh stuff) but his still having a runny nose, sneezing from time to time and sometimes he's breathing sounds heavy. We've been to the vet on Monday as he was getting a bit gassy (got meds and home treatment, so all is good on that front). Vet said he seems to be good and she's not worried, though she did say she'd be baffled if the ABs won't work as then she wouldn't know what to do next. The culture they did on his nose earlier was a bit inconclusive, but that's what the medication was based on now (the vet said Bactrim is the only AB that responds to the bacteria found).
I've just left her a message about the runny nose and heavy breathing, as it is worrying me, though last week she did say it can take a long time to get Bruno cleared up completely, as the long infection might have irritated all the membranes etc, so he might be snuffly even though the original infection would be going away. How does this sound to you? I've had pigs before, but their URIs always were pretty straight forward and easily dealt with.
Here's what Bruno is on now: Bactrim .4CC twice a day, 0.3 Metacam twice a day, nebulized saline 15min twice a day, support fed Critical Care (or Recovery). Weight is still around 870-880g.
Here with an update:
Bruno was eventually put on Bactrim, as CT scan from his head and lungs showed infection in both ears and both sides of the lungs. This was three weeks ago, and he was originally put on a two-week course of Bactrim, to see if it would mess with his appetite. He maintained a pretty good appetite, as I kept support feeding him CC the whole time. As a result of this, the vet recommended to keep going for another two weeks as the infection had been going on for quite a long time. Now we are a total of 3 weeks into ABs, Bruno is pretty alert, active, eats on his own (hay, not keen on the fresh stuff) but his still having a runny nose, sneezing from time to time and sometimes he's breathing sounds heavy. We've been to the vet on Monday as he was getting a bit gassy (got meds and home treatment, so all is good on that front). Vet said he seems to be good and she's not worried, though she did say she'd be baffled if the ABs won't work as then she wouldn't know what to do next. The culture they did on his nose earlier was a bit inconclusive, but that's what the medication was based on now (the vet said Bactrim is the only AB that responds to the bacteria found).
I've just left her a message about the runny nose and heavy breathing, as it is worrying me, though last week she did say it can take a long time to get Bruno cleared up completely, as the long infection might have irritated all the membranes etc, so he might be snuffly even though the original infection would be going away. How does this sound to you? I've had pigs before, but their URIs always were pretty straight forward and easily dealt with.
Here's what Bruno is on now: Bactrim .4CC twice a day, 0.3 Metacam twice a day, nebulized saline 15min twice a day, support fed Critical Care (or Recovery). Weight is still around 870-880g.
I got a reply from the vet and she is reluctant to add another AB to the mix, as there is no indication in the culture that it would do anything. We might to another culture from the ears after the course of Bactrim ends and see if we find something still hiding there. Other options are a videoscopy to see if the infection is still in his ears and try a flush at the same time, but that would cost me another 500€. Or, do a new CT, which would be another 400€. The culture is around 100e, so I might start with that incase there is no improvement during the next week. The vet wants to wait until the end of the course, as the tests have indicated that Bactrim *should* do the trick and it's the only one appropriate.
Bruno has been on and off Metacam for various reasons, now he's still on it due to the gas which made him uncomfortable and during the ABs he's been on it to reduce inflammation of the membranes. I'm considering dropping the dosage down and seeing what that will do. I just got a new prescription with the same dosage, so I didn't realize it might be high.. What would be a better one?
Bruno has been on and off Metacam for various reasons, now he's still on it due to the gas which made him uncomfortable and during the ABs he's been on it to reduce inflammation of the membranes. I'm considering dropping the dosage down and seeing what that will do. I just got a new prescription with the same dosage, so I didn't realize it might be high.. What would be a better one?
-
Sef
- I dissent.
I know there is some debate about Metacam being safe at higher doses (5th Edition of 'Exotics Formulary' by James Carpenter still puts the generally accepted range at 0.1-0.3 mg/kg q24 for rodents/guinea pigs), but I lean towards a more conservative approach with it unless the need for greater pain management outweighs the risks.
Someone else can double-check my math, but this is what I come up with assuming you have the standard Metacam suspension of 1.5 mg/ml (do double-check that):
.9 kg (Bruno's weight) x recommended dose of roughly 0.2 mg/kg = 0.18.
0.18 divided by the Metacam suspension of 1.5 mg/ml = 0.12 cc's (every 24 hours)
Again, this can be adjusted up or down, depending on the situation.
ETA: Just noticed that you are from beautiful Finland! I'm jealous. :)
Someone else can double-check my math, but this is what I come up with assuming you have the standard Metacam suspension of 1.5 mg/ml (do double-check that):
.9 kg (Bruno's weight) x recommended dose of roughly 0.2 mg/kg = 0.18.
0.18 divided by the Metacam suspension of 1.5 mg/ml = 0.12 cc's (every 24 hours)
Again, this can be adjusted up or down, depending on the situation.
ETA: Just noticed that you are from beautiful Finland! I'm jealous. :)
I remember when our girl Nala was put on what seemed like a high dose of Metacam when she had a lump on her cheek. She was 750g at the time and prescribed 0.2ml TWICE a day at a concentration of 1.5 mg per ml. This was almost double what she had been on before (0.23ml once a day) for a previous issue. Although she had started to show signs of recovery (She hadn't been eating due to the lump but had not shown any other issues up until then) after about a week her weight started dropping rapidly and her breathing became noticeably laboured. She had also always bee a bit of a sneezer but that seemed to get worse although there was no visible discharge.
The X-rays showed a lot of fluid in her chest cavity and she was put on Lasix and Chloramphenicol palmitate for 6 weeks. We also stuffed her with Critical Care (1.5 teaspoons of powder mixed with water every day) and, despite being told by the vet to consider euthanasia, after 4 weeks she started showing signs of improvement and now, 3-4 months later she is just over 1,110g and doing well.
However as a result of that experience, despite the fact the vet assured me the high metacam dose wasn't the cause of the breathing issue and that she had "Just upped the dose" I will be double checking any future dosages they give me especially for metacam and querying any that seem too high.
I dont know if the CT scan would have shown any fluid issues like Nala had but I wonder, given that her breathing issues were somewhat mysterious as well, whether it might be worth getting a chest X-Ray or asking the vet about Lasix.
You can see more details of Nalas issues in this thread including videos of her breathing in case that helps. Her breathing issues started around the start of September last year,
https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewt ... 7&start=40
The X-rays showed a lot of fluid in her chest cavity and she was put on Lasix and Chloramphenicol palmitate for 6 weeks. We also stuffed her with Critical Care (1.5 teaspoons of powder mixed with water every day) and, despite being told by the vet to consider euthanasia, after 4 weeks she started showing signs of improvement and now, 3-4 months later she is just over 1,110g and doing well.
However as a result of that experience, despite the fact the vet assured me the high metacam dose wasn't the cause of the breathing issue and that she had "Just upped the dose" I will be double checking any future dosages they give me especially for metacam and querying any that seem too high.
I dont know if the CT scan would have shown any fluid issues like Nala had but I wonder, given that her breathing issues were somewhat mysterious as well, whether it might be worth getting a chest X-Ray or asking the vet about Lasix.
You can see more details of Nalas issues in this thread including videos of her breathing in case that helps. Her breathing issues started around the start of September last year,
https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewt ... 7&start=40
-
bpatters
- And got the T-shirt
I have a pig with REALLY severe arthritis in her knees. She gets .8 ml of 1.5 mg/ml Metacam once a day, and it takes that much to keep her comfortable and mobile. She's been on it for months with no ill effects yet. She's eight, and I'm way more about keeping her pain-free than I am about extending her life.
Whoa, I had no idea that the .3ml might be a "high" dose. Bruno was originally put on Metacam for two broken incisors, but we only did a course of 2-3 days. We have since picked up on metacam to reduce any possible inflammation and/or pain from the infections, and I was just given a new bottle of the stuff with the same dosage... After reading your messages, I reduced the dosage but actually decided to give Bruno a go without any starting from today. He has been eating very well, even started to munch away pellets finally, is very social and active. So hopefully there isn't any reason left to have him on it anymore.
Bruno's not had an X-ray, but he has had ultrasound and CT, none of which showed any signs of fluids. CT showed mild to mediocre(?) infection in both lungs, around the upper bronchi (sorry, my English on piggy anatomy isn't the best). The vet said they didn't look bad and should be easily knocked out with the AB. His lungs have been sounding good upon listening and only his breathing through nostrils have indicated anything wrong. The CT also showed mucus in his nasal cavities, hence the nebulized saline. I'll discuss the X-ray option with the vet if we need to check up on anything more, as it should be a lot cheaper than the CT..
As I wrote in my last post, he had a day with full on runny nose, but most of the time his nose is quite clear and he even has times when it's dry. Also, his breathing isnt' wheezing all of the time, there are times when he is totally quite. He does sneeze a bit, but I'd like to say it's down to a max of few times a day.
We'll have a check-up with the vet around Thursday, when Bruno's ABs are done. The vet we've been seeing is probably the best in Finland, so I'm trying my hardest to trust her judgment as well, though sometimes she does seem a bit reluctant on my propositions (i.e. gentomycin).
EDIT: My vet is actually using the Carpenter book when she's double checking dosages (she also needs to check them for Finnish counterparts etc), so that might be why she's okay with the .3ml dosage).
Bruno's not had an X-ray, but he has had ultrasound and CT, none of which showed any signs of fluids. CT showed mild to mediocre(?) infection in both lungs, around the upper bronchi (sorry, my English on piggy anatomy isn't the best). The vet said they didn't look bad and should be easily knocked out with the AB. His lungs have been sounding good upon listening and only his breathing through nostrils have indicated anything wrong. The CT also showed mucus in his nasal cavities, hence the nebulized saline. I'll discuss the X-ray option with the vet if we need to check up on anything more, as it should be a lot cheaper than the CT..
As I wrote in my last post, he had a day with full on runny nose, but most of the time his nose is quite clear and he even has times when it's dry. Also, his breathing isnt' wheezing all of the time, there are times when he is totally quite. He does sneeze a bit, but I'd like to say it's down to a max of few times a day.
We'll have a check-up with the vet around Thursday, when Bruno's ABs are done. The vet we've been seeing is probably the best in Finland, so I'm trying my hardest to trust her judgment as well, though sometimes she does seem a bit reluctant on my propositions (i.e. gentomycin).
EDIT: My vet is actually using the Carpenter book when she's double checking dosages (she also needs to check them for Finnish counterparts etc), so that might be why she's okay with the .3ml dosage).
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