It also came highly recommended from the vet, who takes it himself. I'll hold my breath and give it a shot. Just need to tell the pigs to hold their breaths too!
I sincerely hope that's the only problem Lucy is facing.
I think I'm losing Lucy . . .
I've had pigs on daily Rimadyl for years. We autopsy every pig and have yet to find any evidence that their livers have been affected by the Rimadyl. Not to say it isn't an issue, just that so far we haven't found it to be.
I recently switched Ferdinand from Meloxicam to Rimadyl and he is doing better on it.
I don't know that C is that much of an issue with arthritis. Apatche was born in our house and has arthritis. His sister did too - extremely severe in the shoulder. She was the fisrt pig to see the Physio for help since she was flopping like a fish due to the pain. Ultrasound therapy made a huge difference. She also was on Rimadyl for 3 or 4 years until she died. many other pigs who ended up with arthritis came to our house as babies.
Most arthritis seems to be age related. Pigs seem to come down with the same age related problems as humans. Just about all our seniors are on Fortekor for their hearts. 3 are on Lasix also. All the seniors are on arthritis meds too except for the diabetic who seems to have escaped both heart issues and arthritis. (She'll be 6 this June.)
Any pig at our house that gets daily meds also gets vitamin C.
I asked my vet why so many of our pigs had arthritis and her theory is that we don't have an unusally high incidence of arthritis. Because our pigs are free range we tend to notice changes in their behavior quickly. I always know to take pigs in for diagnosis when they have trouble jumping levels or climbing the condo stairs. I also see weird gaits(hopping motions) when they are running in the garden. Pigs that spend their lives in a cage don't move around enough for the owners to see there is a problem.
I recently switched Ferdinand from Meloxicam to Rimadyl and he is doing better on it.
I don't know that C is that much of an issue with arthritis. Apatche was born in our house and has arthritis. His sister did too - extremely severe in the shoulder. She was the fisrt pig to see the Physio for help since she was flopping like a fish due to the pain. Ultrasound therapy made a huge difference. She also was on Rimadyl for 3 or 4 years until she died. many other pigs who ended up with arthritis came to our house as babies.
Most arthritis seems to be age related. Pigs seem to come down with the same age related problems as humans. Just about all our seniors are on Fortekor for their hearts. 3 are on Lasix also. All the seniors are on arthritis meds too except for the diabetic who seems to have escaped both heart issues and arthritis. (She'll be 6 this June.)
Any pig at our house that gets daily meds also gets vitamin C.
I asked my vet why so many of our pigs had arthritis and her theory is that we don't have an unusally high incidence of arthritis. Because our pigs are free range we tend to notice changes in their behavior quickly. I always know to take pigs in for diagnosis when they have trouble jumping levels or climbing the condo stairs. I also see weird gaits(hopping motions) when they are running in the garden. Pigs that spend their lives in a cage don't move around enough for the owners to see there is a problem.
-
KarasKavies
- For the love of my girls!
I misunderstood when you were taking Lucy in. You are taking her in on Saturday, right? I asked N about you today and he said you hadn't been in.
I hope you get good/helpful news.
I hope you get good/helpful news.
-
Josephine
- Little Jo Wheek
Yes, vitamin C can be an issue with arthritis and joint pain.
I went to some CE at a well-attended veterinary conference about 2 years ago on veterinary acupuncture. Naturally, the discussion turned to a group Q & A and discussion about integrating other modalities (diet, drugs, and other physical therapy/exercise). Vitamin C was brought up as a useful supplement (along with glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM) with chronic bone and joint pain or acute. Daily maintenance dosages were discussed. What surprised me were the dosages for acute treatment. Like 1000-3000 mgs/day PO of the buffered stuff for an average 50-75# dog. They work to bowel tolerance and slowly ease off. I thought it was hocus pocus. No way!
It seems to work in most cases. I have tried it with my own pets (dogs) for acute on chronic arthritis (with spondylosis, too) and the results even beat the steroids and NSAIDS! I've gotten to the point that I skip the steroids and NSAIDS altogether when I have a limping/crying/screaming dog from joint issues. It's ridiculous, but I even recommended it to others who saw similar results. Crazy. Dogs manufacture vitamin C in their own bodies without supplementation. I don't know exactly the physiological workings, but everything I've learned about joints shows that vitamin C is helpful for maintaining that cartilage. The excess is excreted in the urine (mostly).
The problem, however, with LARGE doses of vitamin C over time is that bowel tolerance can be tricky (diarrhea is common with overdosing or quickly giving a large amount) and the body does tend to make urinary tract stones from that excess vitamin C.
I still recommend supplementing all arthritis pigs with 50 mgs daily. I don't think anyone has seen problems with that level. If a pig was really sore, I might even go as high as 200 mgs for a one time dose, if it was buffered. I haven't had the chance to try it in cavies. My arthritis pigs seem fairly well maintained on 50 mgs SID.
I went to some CE at a well-attended veterinary conference about 2 years ago on veterinary acupuncture. Naturally, the discussion turned to a group Q & A and discussion about integrating other modalities (diet, drugs, and other physical therapy/exercise). Vitamin C was brought up as a useful supplement (along with glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM) with chronic bone and joint pain or acute. Daily maintenance dosages were discussed. What surprised me were the dosages for acute treatment. Like 1000-3000 mgs/day PO of the buffered stuff for an average 50-75# dog. They work to bowel tolerance and slowly ease off. I thought it was hocus pocus. No way!
It seems to work in most cases. I have tried it with my own pets (dogs) for acute on chronic arthritis (with spondylosis, too) and the results even beat the steroids and NSAIDS! I've gotten to the point that I skip the steroids and NSAIDS altogether when I have a limping/crying/screaming dog from joint issues. It's ridiculous, but I even recommended it to others who saw similar results. Crazy. Dogs manufacture vitamin C in their own bodies without supplementation. I don't know exactly the physiological workings, but everything I've learned about joints shows that vitamin C is helpful for maintaining that cartilage. The excess is excreted in the urine (mostly).
The problem, however, with LARGE doses of vitamin C over time is that bowel tolerance can be tricky (diarrhea is common with overdosing or quickly giving a large amount) and the body does tend to make urinary tract stones from that excess vitamin C.
I still recommend supplementing all arthritis pigs with 50 mgs daily. I don't think anyone has seen problems with that level. If a pig was really sore, I might even go as high as 200 mgs for a one time dose, if it was buffered. I haven't had the chance to try it in cavies. My arthritis pigs seem fairly well maintained on 50 mgs SID.
Josephine, that is new and useful information for me. My dog has hip dysplasia and she took Rimadyl for a couple of years until liver damage occured. She now takes Deracoxib and glucosamine as well as Missing Link and cold pressed flax. She weighs 120 lbs....so I should really get her to 3,000 mg of C per day? She is 6 (a Dane).
Interesting re the C. I haven't seen any miraculous improvements when supplementing C to our arthritis pigs(which we do). The only miraculous improvements I've seen were with ultrasound for Soot's shoulder and with Azithromycin(sp?) for Beachez which took her from a state of paralysis to total normal movement.
Otherwise the arthritis treatments we use just maintain their mobility.
The pigs born to our house have not suffered any C deficiency and two of them have had arthritis along with their mother. Coincidentally this is the same family with heart disease. I suspect some arthritis is hereditary.
The diabetic who has no arthritis does not always get a C supplement with her meds. Sometimes we run out of the plain C and she doesn't get the orange flavoured c because of the sugar. With her, a C supplement is very hit and miss yet she is our only current senior without arthritis. Maybe she's just an anomaly...
Otherwise the arthritis treatments we use just maintain their mobility.
The pigs born to our house have not suffered any C deficiency and two of them have had arthritis along with their mother. Coincidentally this is the same family with heart disease. I suspect some arthritis is hereditary.
The diabetic who has no arthritis does not always get a C supplement with her meds. Sometimes we run out of the plain C and she doesn't get the orange flavoured c because of the sugar. With her, a C supplement is very hit and miss yet she is our only current senior without arthritis. Maybe she's just an anomaly...
Teresa
I had one of my 3 year old piggys recently holding one back leg tightly under her, she was very mobile but on three legs. The ankle rather than the elbow seemed painful in her case, she would neither stretch it or put it down.
I put her on Rimadyl and took her to the vet, the ankle was x-rayed, nothing broken.
Dr G did not find anything conclusive other than the ankle was swollen, arthritus was not ruled out, nor a sprain but then there was also a possibility that the swelling involved a bacteria causant, because we didn't have anything solid we followed a course of Rimadyl + Baytril for 2 - 3 weeks which resolved the issue.
good luck Julia
I had one of my 3 year old piggys recently holding one back leg tightly under her, she was very mobile but on three legs. The ankle rather than the elbow seemed painful in her case, she would neither stretch it or put it down.
I put her on Rimadyl and took her to the vet, the ankle was x-rayed, nothing broken.
Dr G did not find anything conclusive other than the ankle was swollen, arthritus was not ruled out, nor a sprain but then there was also a possibility that the swelling involved a bacteria causant, because we didn't have anything solid we followed a course of Rimadyl + Baytril for 2 - 3 weeks which resolved the issue.
good luck Julia
-
Josephine
- Little Jo Wheek
Chary, I wouldn't use the massive doses of C for more than a week or so. The side effects are not worth it (especially the stones). I would consider getting her on a maintenance dose. It only helps, not cures the problems. I, too, don't notice a huge difference on maintenance. 50 mgs/day on a cavy doesn't usually provide enough excess to be a problem, but I'm sure you won't see any serious results if they had acute musculoskeletal pain. It's like giving 100 or 500 mgs to a large dog. No marked improvement as a one time deal. When my dogs are so painful, they don't want to move I shoot them full of C (even orally works within a few hours) instead of carprofen or deracoxib, which don't usually work that well unless you use them every day (BTW, I do prefer the deracoxib hands-down to the carprofen any day). Steroids were the next choice if the dog didn't improve within 12 hours, but the side effects and consequences of frequent usage (even hit and miss) are not good at all. I hate to see my pets in pain, though. I really am a worry wort when it comes to them. I don't want them to ever hurt or be ill. I try to use steroids for the really serious, life-threatening or severe (almost irreversible) musculoskeletal injury only. I can't believe the vitamin C worked on the dogs I tried it on. I've been using it every couple of months for two years since that conference.
It should help all kinds of arthritis. It is instrumental in all sorts of immune function. There are stress, FIP (in cats), and even dermatitis indications. It is also a urinary acidifier at certain doses.
Animals prone to urate, oxalate, or cystine stones should not be on C for the long term. It may also cause false negative in urine glucose tests (for diabetics). Diarrhea and GI problems (upset) are the number one side effects.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a canine dosage anywhere. Darn pharmacology texts. I do know that a lot of products with glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM also contain vitamin C additives. I'm not sure if the Missing Link Plus does or not. Perhaps some.
It should help all kinds of arthritis. It is instrumental in all sorts of immune function. There are stress, FIP (in cats), and even dermatitis indications. It is also a urinary acidifier at certain doses.
Animals prone to urate, oxalate, or cystine stones should not be on C for the long term. It may also cause false negative in urine glucose tests (for diabetics). Diarrhea and GI problems (upset) are the number one side effects.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a canine dosage anywhere. Darn pharmacology texts. I do know that a lot of products with glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM also contain vitamin C additives. I'm not sure if the Missing Link Plus does or not. Perhaps some.
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