Ivermectin OD

pinta

Post   » Sat Oct 19, 2002 8:21 pm


Lynx - I don´t think it´s that much of a stretch. My vet refuses to ivermectin sick pigs and tells me not to use Advantage until the pig is healthy. She feels the chemicals(?) compromise the immune system of a pig that is already ill.

My vet has honestly recoiled in horror when I´ve asked if a sick pig can have the Advantage too and spat out "NO".

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 19, 2002 8:49 pm


I remember you mentioning this. It doesn´t make much sense to me, but I don´t know much. I am still stubborn with my opinions and it will stick to what looks logical until I have a reason to believe otherwise.

pinta

Post   » Sat Oct 19, 2002 9:27 pm


it will stick to what looks logical until I have a reason to believe otherwise.


How about dead pigs shortly after getting dosed with Ivermectin........and a veterinarian´s warning.

Hopefully, the autopsy will be informative.

I´m pretty sure my vet has good reason and background experience to be so adamant about not treating sick animals with optional pesticides. She´s not a paranoid individual.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 19, 2002 9:52 pm


Okay, but I think of ivermectin as being fairly benign. There is a wide margin of safety. It works on the bugs. This isn´t to say your vet doesn´t in her mind have a valid opinion. Just that from what little I know, it doesn´t seem to make much sense. And where did you pull dead pigs from? This a red herring?

There are no contraindications to treatment regarding illness in cattle. The handout that comes with the Ivomec says:

Mode of Action

Ivermectin is a member of the macrocyclic lactone class of endectocides which have a unique mode of action. Compounds of the class bind selectively and with high affinity to glutamate-gated chloride ion channels which occur in invertebrate [parasite] nerve and muscle cells. This leads to a increase in the permeability of the cell membrane to chloride ions with hyperpolarization of the nerve or muscle cell, resulting in paralysis and death of the parasite. Compounds of the class may also interact with other ligand-gated chloride channels, such as those gated by the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (AGBA)

The wide margin of satety is attributable to the fact that mammals do not have glutamate-gated chloride channels, the macrocyclic lactones have a flow affinity for other mammalian ligand-gated chloride channels and they do not readily cross the blood -brain barrier.

The basic contraindications have to do with not administering close to time of slaughter (we might injest some in meat) or during heel fly season since the grubs located in vital areas, if killed in the body, can result in fatalities.

pinta

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:07 am


Yes, Ivermectin is fairly benign - but not so benign that it can´t be overdosed and not so benign that pig under 12 oz. can safely be dosed with it and not so benign authorities want people ingesting meat laced with Ivermectin.

There are no contraindications to treatment regarding illness in cattle.
So what? Guinea pigs aren´t cattle and Ivermectin is off label use for them. This a red herring?

The dead pigs are the ones Red Blur has mentioned in this thread. You will need to read page one of this thread for how the dead guinea pigs fit into it.(See quote in italics below.)

The Ivermection was not the problem if they had an underlying illness. But the body may have already be weakened by the underlying illness to the degree the Ivermectin had a stronger effect on the body.

I have no idea what your post quote means. All Greek to me. All I know is my vet has told me for years not to treat ill pigs with "systemic" anti-parasite treatments because their immune system is already compromised and such treatments are too stressing to their bodies. And here is an example of another vet unrelated to my vet saying that Ivermectin may have triggered (the gist is there - maybe the translation is off)an underlying illness. This seems to support what my vet has said all along. I haven´t tested the theory - I´ve trusted my vet´s opinion and followed her directives. Ivermectin/Advantage + sick pig = bad stuff

The vet now thinks that they may have had an underlying illness (possibly salmonella) that may have been
triggered by the Ivermectin.


I´m thinking the pig, already weakened by the underlying illness, may have reacted to the Ivermectin negatively. I believe this is what was meant by "triggered". The symptoms listed certainly seem to relate to Ivermectin OD symptoms. Clinical signs of Salmonella are not similar to the symptoms these pigs had.

I guess we have to wait for the autopsy report.

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Red Blur
Chocolate Giver

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 12:41 pm


Vet did a necropsy on another pig that died. Found an intestinal infection, possibly cause by something they ate. If I remember correctly, they are treating with Baytril - I´m having an email glitch and can´t remember exactly what was written of the top of my head.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:13 pm


Red Blur, I did a search trying to find your comments about losing pigs after their being ivermectined. I couldn´t find anything by anyone that seemed to apply.

Could you restate what happened to how many pigs and all the circumstances you remember? How many lost? Just the one necropsied?

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Becky

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 2:21 pm


One of the deceased pigs has been sent to the pathology lab for tests.

It´s on page one of this thread.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:54 pm


Can you provide a link? This thread has no extra pages for me. I really don´t know where it is. A link would be great. All I read was:

The vet now thinks that they may have had an underlying illness (possibly salmonella) that may have been triggered by the Ivermectin. One of the deceased pigs has been sent to a pathology lab for tests. Results should be in early next week. He did say that he would have treated them with Ivermectin also, so we shouldn´t fret too much about that.

In the meantime, we´re having a bleach session to disinfect all supplies and cages per Dr´s orders. Hopefully (I´ve never hoped for an illness before) it is Salmonella since that may be treatable with Baytril. One pig who was quite ill was started on Baytril this morning. Keep your fingers crossed.


Is this what you are talking about?? These comments don´t tell me how many pigs died, how many were treated, what the symptoms were, or anything. So I am clueless on details. And I have no idea how soon after treatment they died either. My understanding is reactions happen very soon after treatment so the ivermectin may be entirely unrelated to what happened.

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:07 pm


From what I understand, some pigs started being sick after 3 days. No way it´s Ivermectin OD. I´m not sure how many were affected. Maybe Red Blur can explain?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:34 pm


How many of how many? They could easily have been sick already.

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:54 pm


Lynx-
Don´t you read? Look a few posts above. The necropsy showed an intestinal infection.

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