Male with bladder stone--need a good vet

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Post   » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:40 pm

The recommendation from K-State veterenary hospital was that twice a day was perfectly fine, so long as the maximum daily dose was not exceeded.

If you are particularly concerned, you can switch to 0.3 mL once a day, but it is really not a concern.

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Post   » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:59 pm

Oreo's twice a day dosage is vet recommended.

You can quote me

Post   » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:45 pm

We have split Metacam dosages into twice a day with noticeable benefit, no ill effect, and with our vet's okay.

This was not done for more than a few days (4-6) at the time, however.

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Post   » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:25 pm

I believe the protocol for metacam/meloxicam is twice daily for the first three days, then once a day.

In this particular case, it seems to me that controlling the pain is pretty important. Poor little guy.


Post   » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:51 pm

I agree with Becky. Considering Peppi's condition, pain control is the biggest goal. Ultimately, for Gilbert, we worked out with our vet to give him about 75% of his daily dose in the evening, and another 25% in the morning to help with the breakthrough discomfort.

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Poop Obsessed

Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:29 pm

I agree with controlling pain. Its just that meloxicam is an NSAID, and this class of drug does carry potential GI problems. Both of the vets I use said they wouldn't prescribe it more than once a day, but if they absolutely had to for some reason, they would supplement with Carafate to offset any problems.

There is no written protocol for this med. Anyway, I just wanted to be sure that the potential GI issue was not forgotten.

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Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:04 pm

One of the primary benefits of Melixicam over other NSAIDS is a lower incidence of GI problems. Much better than, say, Ibuprofen or Naproxen.



Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:24 pm

Anyway, I just wanted to be sure that the potential GI issue was not forgotten.

This is a good point. Our vet urged us to monitor Gilbert carefully. He wasn't bothered by it at all; Henry was more sensitive to it.

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Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:53 pm

I've had three different vets Rx metacam for both guinea pigs and cats and every single time, it's been twice a day for the first three days, then once a day after. Whether this is written protocol or not, it certainly seems to be the way it is given.

Of course people should be aware of possible GI issues, however, for you to write in bold not to give it twice a day--that you're not supposed to give it more than once a day when that is what extremely competent and trusted vets have done in the past might give the impression that this is a life-threatening drug when in fact, it's been extremely important to the recovery and longevity of many, many animals.

Yes, there's a potential for GI issues, just the same as there is for any NSAID. But when I dislocated my elbow, believe me, the GI issues were the least of my problems. I took the prescribed large doses of Advil.

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Post   » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:53 pm

Hi all, sorry for the slow response. Still trying to shake this cold and I haven't been online much.

I noted the concerns with GI upset and twice a day Metacam. As Becky said further up, in Peppi's case, we are more concerned with keeping him as comfortable as possible. We've had him on twice a day doses since Tuesday, and I don't think it is causing him any trouble. His poops look normal, although small. He's not eating much, but I think that's from his illness rather than the Metacam.

We actually did ok for a couple days with handfeeding. We had added sweet potato baby food to his CC and he really liked that, but now he's sick of it again. He fought us last night and we could only get about 5 or 6 CCs into him. He has also lost more weight, hovering now at about 900 g. Peppi is also sitting around puffy more often throughout the day, and while I would not consider it an impaction per say, because they do come out easily when on our lap, he sits around so much that poos just kind of sit in his butt. Unfortunately, I think Becky is also right that his teeth may be starting to overgrow slightly. He has developed a bad habit of chewing on our clothes, blankets or whatever he can get to when he is out on our lap. I think his teeth might feel weird to him, but at this stage of his illness, filing is not an option. He still wants his treats.

Vinod just got some Thermacare wraps to put under his bed, so I hope that will make him feel nice and warm.

I had two guinea pigs at different points while growing up that got very sick. I think they were both put to sleep (unfortunately by a parent while I was at school). It was obvious that they felt really bad, because they ignored our attention and lost interest in all food, even veggies. Peppi has been very hard for me to read and I think it may be a personality issue. Despite his continued interest in his favorite foods, he looks very uncomfortable most of the day. We have an appointment Monday for an x-ray. I think that seeing the stage the stone is at now will help to solidify in our minds the right thing to do for him at this point.

Thanks as usual for all your help, and sorry (as usual) for the long post.

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It started with Louie...

Post   » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:11 pm

Thanks for the update and give Peppi a kiss for me.


Post   » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:18 pm

I'm sorry Peppi is having such a hard time. Kisses from all of us, especially Henry.

Also, the Thermacare wraps should help. We found we had really good luck with those and the generic brand at Walmart (they are packaged differently - the ones for your back come with two individual packs for each use, so you actually get four heat packs). Gilbert and Sully both really liked sleeping on them - it helped a lot with the discomfort.

Supporter in '13

Post   » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:59 pm

Peppi perked up yesterday after receiving his morning Metacam dose, so I was hopeful he wasn't as bad as I typed. But last night we weighed him and he was down to 860 grams. It's getting almost impossible to hand feed him without feeling like we are making his life miserable. He did enjoy the heat pack, though. We have one under his bed today, and for the first time in a while, he is laying down curled in a cashew shape, and he looks comfortable. I didn't have the heart to disturb him for a planned CC feeding.

I think the time is near and we're going to talk to our vet at length about our options for the most humane and stress free way to help him along. I hope we can somehow do something at home, but I have a feeling we may not be able to get a vet to come here. I spent last night reading this thread on euthanasia to see what would be best. Does anyone know if putting him in the chamber with both iso and oxygen piped in would be more comfortable and peaceful than the iso alone? That's what my vet said he usually does first for small animals. I don't want Peppi to be scared.


Post   » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:07 pm

I'm glad the heat pack is helping. Like Peppi, both Gilbert and Sully seemed to be able to rest comfortably with the extra warmth.

I'm sorry I can't help you with your questions about euthanasia. Some little part of me wonders if our two guys died at the vets' while we weren't around because they didn't want to have to put *us* through the process.

I really hope you and Peppi are able to enjoy each other's company to the fullest for as long as he has left. I'm sorry it's coming to this. (big hugs)

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Post   » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:48 pm

Gilbert was able to get some very, very much needed rest when the heat packs were in the cage, and your description of "curled up like a cashew" fits the image perfectly. He was sleeping soundly, and looked more comfortable than he had for a long time.

Regarding the euthenasia, I don't have much to offer. I would ask the vet if I could bring some familiar things to help Peppi be at ease. Maybe a cuddle cup, or a t-shirt that you've worn and smells like you, a treat he likes, or some hay.

I wish so much that there was some other solution. Give Peppi a chin rub or a pet for me; I will be thinking about him. I know this is so hard for you, so I'll be thinking about you, too.

You're doing the right thing, as you always have. He's lived a good, long life with abundant love, and he's going to be surrounded by love right through what lies ahead.

Supporter in '13

Post   » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:40 pm

Your posts made me cry. You are so sweet. Thank you both for your kindness.

I forgot to ask also, if anyone knows, regarding that thread I linked to above, about other sedatives like Torb, and how they need to be administered if we were to use them in this case. Injection, or orally, and how long do they take to work? We'll ask the vet the same questions when he gets in tomorrow, but I thought I'd ask here, too.

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Post   » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:20 pm

When Gilbert had surgery at K-State, the vet prescribed some oral narcotics for a brief period post-op. We used a very small (0.5 cc) syringe to put a tiny bit on his gum. He was comfortable and asleep in less than ten minutes.

He really loved his narcs! Little piggie ears would flap periodically while he snoozed.

Having given it some thought, this is the way I would probably lean. Oral narcotics seem to work very well, and should produced comfort and probably sleep. I can't imagine it producing any further stress.


Post   » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:08 am

Capybara - we've been thinking about you and Peppi all day.

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Post   » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:32 pm

Thank you for sending kind thoughts. Somehow, Peppi was feeling better yesterday. He was more active and I saw him at his hay and pellets several times. He bugged me for treats. When we weighed him last night, his weight was the same as it was on Sunday. And he actually took 12 ccs of Critical Care without too much fuss.

This morning, somehow he gained! He had been down to 840 g on Sunday and Monday and was 870 in the morning. I know 12 ccs shouldn't be enough to sustain that kind of gain overnight, so I think he must have eaten more on his own. Today when I went to give him his Metacam he was sound asleep in his bed on top of the heat pad, and dreaming with his ears twitching. I waited about 10 minutes until he woke up. He looked so comfy.

He is really having so many ups and downs. His little mind just won't quit. His personality and will is what is making this so hard. We are going to take this day by day. I know there won't be a miracle recovery, but if he is feeling well enough to do better for a little while longer, I will be grateful to have him.


Post   » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:17 pm

I'm glad he's having a couple of better days. Enjoy the time with him.

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