Satins and bone loss--Attn: Hollister families

[KarenLC]

http://www.rspcareadingguineapigs.co.uk ... rticle.htm is the link for all the info I have at the moment and contains details of symptoms etc. Updates will be added as and when available.

I notice your Shiraz did not have OD so Ca would have worked. OD pigs cannot absorb it, hence the problem. The Netherlands sent some bones for a Hitology research and the result was osteodystrophie fibrosa.

[Josephine]

Kara, your associations are backwards. Just flip them. The pure recessives (snsn) are the satins. The Snsn pigs are the satin-carriers and are normal-coated.

[pinta]

KarenLC - Is there something that shows on the xray that pinpoints OD? Can you see that the problem is OD and not just a general loss of bone density? I have Shiraz's xrays posted on her thread in Reference. Do you know enough to compare hers with yours?

Have you ever tried calcium supplements on these pigs? I'll admit that when we saw Shiraz had thinning bones we just plunged into calcium supplementation figuring we had nothing to lose. She was dying before our eyes.

Is it theory that calcium supplementation won't work or is there data from test cases.

It seems the deeper we dig into this the more complicated it becomes. Unfortunately much of the med info I google assumes I understand it. So not the case - I need this stuff translated into stoopud.

[Becky]

Karen, just to let you know, my vet told me he's going to start doing an x-ray on satins that come in to the hospital where he practices. He does seem to think there's a connection between this and satins, or at least, he's pretty darn curious about it.

I'm wondering if the dosage of calcium might have made a differenece with Shiraz. From the necropsy report, Shiraz had both OD and Pagets or Pagets-like disease. When my vet and I reviewed Pinta's thread, he thought 150mg daily was way too high. Maybe the difference is the dosage.

Do you have a dosage on calcium supplements you used?

[KarasKavies]

Pinta, how large was Shiraz's jaw and how did the jaw's size manifest itself? Was her whole skull large or just the lower jaw?

[lisam]

My Artoo developed "rottweiler" jaws. It was his cheeks--they became very large. It made his head look somewhat "thick". You could really tell when you palpated them.

[pinta]

I think I first noticed something was weird with her jaws in October/November (pointed it out to Dr. Legendre in Feb) and in July she was showing enough symptoms to warrant an xray. She normally had a skinny ratlike face. I can't remember how large they were - just that I thought "rottweiler" when I felt them. It was just the jaw - the skull stayed the same size.

I drew my vet's attention to it repeatedly but with nothing else to go on there was nothing to be done until the other shoe(xrays showing calcium depletion) dropped.

[KarasKavies]

I am asking about the jaw because Bumble, my Teddy, had what I have always thought to be a big skull/head. Her head is very boxy and substantial. Nothing like my other 8 pigs. I have just always assumed she was just that way and that some pigs were. Now I am kind of worried.

She is young (one year) and has always had this type of head. Do most of the bone problems tend to show up at a certain age in the pig?

[pinta]

We're only starting to recognize there is a problem so who knows when it shows up.

I'd be inclined to xray a teddy. Maybe Dr. Nakamura would consider an xray research?

[KarenLC]

The Satins were given Calcium supplements in the Berlin study and they had no effect. Personally I have not given CA supplements because it is not absorbed and collects in the body. Pagets disease on these Satins is ruled out because there were no fractured bones. A thickening of the jaw is a sign of OD apparently. I have not seen it so can't elaborate for you.
I have no expertise in diagnosing OD from x-rays Pinta, sorry. I know my limits!

[pinta]

I'd love to know what kind of calcium and how much the berlin pigs got. Is there any way of getting this info?

Shiraz didn't have any fractured bones that I know of from the xrays. Just bones full of pinholes, as my vet put it. I don't believe excess calcium was found in her body at necropsy(not totally sure). Shiraz definitely had a thickening of the jaw. From what I understand these pigs can have more than one bone disease going on at the same time.

Since the calcium was on the high side - we went to 75MG once a day. Within 5 days she lost 2 oz. Back to 150MG daily. It was a guess at a dose and it turned out to be right. Ignoring hyperthyroid drugs for now since she isn't exhibiting
hyperthyroid behavior. Should be interesting to see how long it takes to get the weight back up.

Unfortunately she died soon after but I remember the weight loss was sudden and dramatic and didn't occur until we halved the calcium dose. I wish we had had a chance to see at what dose the calcium had no effect. I do know the weight loss did not continue when we put her back on the high calcium dose.

I know what you mean about reading xrays, I don't have the knowledge to do it either.

Lisam - did you see any improvements when you had your satins on calcium, or did you get that far?

[lisam]

There was improvement in Artoo in that the weight loss stopped, and he walked more normally instead of that hopping gait. His jaws stayed large, however.