*URGENT* Passing blood...squeaking

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rachelm

Post   » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:11 am


I'm afraid I don't have any constructive advice for you, but just wanted to wish Zachary good luck with this. He's a cutie!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:07 am


I think Cavy Cuisine would be preferable. Pumpkin is okay to add if he'll eat it.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:02 pm


The Metacam is for the inflammation. It didn't do anything for Angel when I tried it.

pinta

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:31 am


If he's making poops and not gaining weight, his motility is probably fine. Why does the vet think there's a motility problem?

The metacam night help as pain relief.

I don't think it's a great idea to culture a sample of pee you got at home. Too much of a chance of contamination. Better for the vet to get a sample directly from the bladder or by expressing the bladder while someone holds a container to catch the pee before it hits the table. This is what we did today to get a pee sample.

I don't know the ins and outs of red vs white blood cells. I would assume any blood cell indicates an infection but I could be wrong - any vet techs or docs around?

It could be he just needs a different AB. Cipro is pretty good for UTIs.

Did he get fluids? Small poops and weight loss often mean dehydration.

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sef1268

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:48 am


If he's making poops and not gaining weight, his motility is probably fine. Why does the vet think there's a motility problem?

Pinta, the vet saw a lot of "gas" on the xray she did three weeks ago. She was concerned about it at the time, but said to keep an eye on output. Since Zachary's feces are now about half their normal size, she thought he might need help with motility. What do you think?
The metacam night help as pain relief.

I was a little reluctant to do this, since I was afraid it would mask the discomfort and cause me to think he is improving -- when that might not be the case. Do you think I should go ahead and start administering?
I don't think it's a great idea to culture a sample of pee you got at home. Too much of a chance of contamination. Better for the vet to get a sample directly from the bladder or by expressing the bladder while someone holds a container to catch the pee before it hits the table. This is what we did today to get a pee sample.

Ordinarily I would agree, but she couldn't get him to urinate without defecating at the same time, and she seemed very reluctant to do the direct-from-bladder procedure. What I generally do, is get a sterile surface such as a new, plastic tablecloth. I put grids around it to make a "playpen," then feed some wet veggies. Wait a few minutes and keep a close eye on it. As soon as I see the pig urinate (and before he walks through it), I use a syringe to draw it up into a sterile bottle. Does that sound okay? Or not?
It could be he just needs a different AB. Cipro is pretty good for UTIs.

That's kinda what I was thinking. Maybe the bacteria is resistant to Bactrim? Is Cipro pretty well tolerated? I didn't see it listed on the antibiotics page.
Did he get fluids? Small poops and weight loss often mean dehydration.

No, she said no sign of dehydration. He seems to be drinking the same amount, but urine output seems to have increased. I'm not seeing any grit/sludge.

I'm really stumped here -- and frustrated.
Last edited by sef1268 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:51 am


What is different about the urine she wants to test again that she told you to get on your own? Also, is it to do a culture?

I found that there are some vets that won't do the cystocentisis on a guinea pig. Did she tell you why she's reluctant?

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sef1268

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:59 am


What is different about the urine she wants to test again that she told you to get on your own? Also, is it to do a culture?
She wasn't able to get a large enough sample to run anything on it, other than to determine that it still had trace blood, pH was slightly elevated but "normal," and...I'm having a brain lapse as to what the third thing was. I'm assuming she just used a test strip.

As far as the cystocentisis (thank you for reminding me of the word; old age is heck), she said she prefers a full bladder when she does that, adding that "it can be a little tricky."

pinta

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:01 pm


You can send your sample off to culture but it will have a bunch of stuff in it that could be discounted as contamination.

Small poops show he is dehydrated. My vet says sometimes the skin pull test isn't that defining for diagnosing dehydration. Small poops scream out dehydration.

If he's pooping he may not need Reglan. If his stomach is bloated then it could help. There could be gas in his stomach from a type of veggie he ate or from gasping for air while eating(heart issues)

twopawsup

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:55 pm


does your vet have acess to ultrasound? WBc's are a sign of infection, but the RBC's in the urine have to be coming from somewhere. An ultrasound would also be albe to show cardiac, kidney and bladder. Stones/sludge can sometimes be elusive on xrays--possible tumor?? I am not familiar with metacam in gp's other than it is messy :)--we currently do not use in our practice. I have found rimadyl (carprofen) ir buprenorphine work very well with our little guys for pain. Buprenorphine is also tasteless and easier to dose. Have to check on dose for you, but the rimadyl dose is listed in meds and is pretty easy to work with.
I an not a certificied vet tech but do work with a small animal vet and do see quite a bit of gp's, but baytril is definatley wortha shot for this cutie, and it is palatable. Crush and make into a well diluted solution if won't take directely. Some vets use the injectable given orally, however I am not nor is my vet keen on that (it is labeled for injection only) 50% dextrose and h20 mixed with the crushed tabs to get the desired dose rx'd by your vet would be great. This is our first choice for UTI's in GP's with Smz as second, but both cover such a broad range. Hate to see you waste on another culture since WBC's are not present. I am thinking there are other causes to this and maybe hold off on repeating ab's since this is only RBC's in the urine and this could be from inflammation of the bladder lining. Definately pump up the fluids with Crit Care or apples, maybe a hint of cranberry juice in h20? On ab's need to keep hydration up well. As stated, small poops are signs of dehydration.
Good luck with him--he's a cutie. I have an old 6+ rescue Peruvian girl. Everyone calls me for GP questions at work.

twopawsup

Post   » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:58 pm


p.s I would pursue the anti-inflammatories as rx'd at least to keep him more comfy and possibly cut down on bladder inflammation if that is the source of it. Good luck :)

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:19 am


twopawsup (love your screen name, by the way),
Nice to meet you! I don't know if my vet has access to ultrasound, but it's definitely something I'll ask about on the follow-up visit. I suspect they do; it's a pretty well-equipped facility.

You raise a very good point about the urine culture, since there are no white blood cells in the urine -- either this time, or on the original visit right after Christmas, when blood was clearly visible on his bedding. Makes me wonder why she prescribed ABs in the first place, now that I think about it. Maybe in case of secondary infection somewhere? What conditions would see blood like that, besides a stone? Or does it seem most likely that it IS a stone?

We had a 6-year old boar whom we adopted after his original owner passed away. He squeaked when he urinated/defecated, and blood showed up in his urine. We went the Baytril route with him, and the blood continued to show up. I'm pretty sure it was just red blood cells. I was convinced it was stones, and asked for multiple sets of xrays on several occasions. Nothing ever showed up. The vet that we were seeing didn't have ultrasound, so there was no way to really get a better look. The diagnosis was ultimately renal failure, which we attributed to his age. I'm a little afraid to ask, but could this be another possibility here?

On the dehyrdation that you and Pinta both mentioned, that was my first thought, but the vet said no, and I discounted it myself because his fluid intake and output has been normal. However, yesterday I decided to go ahead and start handfeeding Critical Care mixed with Pedialyte, and guess what? Zachary LOVES the stuff! Wiped out a 6cc syringe, and begged for more! I need to read back through some of the posts on CC as I can't remember what the recommended amount daily is (I think the label says a total of 50cc broken down into multiple feedings?), but I started him on a total of around 24cc. Didn't want to over-do, as he is still eating veggies and pellets and hay without any problem.

Since I have the Metacam on hand, you think I should go ahead and administer? If so, I'll start him on it tonight. What about the Metoclopramide? I honestly don't see where it has done anything either way so far, and there is no bloat.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:11 am


PS to the above -- is it possible that the Bactrim caused Zachary's poops to become smaller? I really didn't notice this until after 3 weeks of ABs.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:19 am


It is more likely that not eating and drinking enough caused it.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:13 am


Thanks Lynx. His appetite hasn't changed, so I guess it is dehydration.

Something else I'm looking into, is the possibility of diabetes. He drank his Critical Care this morning like crazy -- 30cc's in one sitting. He is also peeing a lot in my lap (even before I started with the increased fluids. In one hour at the vet, he peed 4 times...I chalked it up to stress, but maybe not?). This, with weight loss despite good appetite, is making me wonder...

Good link on GL on cavy diabetes.

pinta

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:55 pm


Get a blood glucose test to check for diabetes.

Heart, a skinny, is on sulfa for a UTI. Symptoms were incontinence and urine scald. Her pee sample had no blood cells in it at all and nothing to indicate stones. She wasn't sore when her bladder was palpated but there was blood in her pee right after. My vet decided not to xray for stones since the only sign of pain she had was to do with the urine scald. She's only been on the sulfa for 2 days but the urine scald is cleared up which indicates the incontinence is under control and the cause most likely was a UTI despite a lack of red or white blood cells in the free catch urine sample.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:27 pm


Smelly urine can also be a sign of a uti.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:17 pm


Pinta,
That's interesting. Well, this brings me back to UTI that is perhaps just resistant to Bactrim. Thinking back, when I started him on it, I didn't notice any more blood on his bedding (towels/fleece) almost immediately after. Although trace is still showing up on the test strip, it does seem that something was responding to the Bactrim. Just didn't get it fully knocked out, maybe. ?

But then, what about those small poops? They look slightly better, I think, but still not those great big beauties that I'm accustomed to from him (it takes a fellow cavy lover to appreciate those). And the weight loss? Not substantial, but definitely down a couple of ounces in the past month.

I bought some glucose reagent strips over lunch today, and tested him for diabetes this evening (I realize this particular type of test isn't conclusive, but I was just curious). The results were negative.

Guess at this point I'll continue doing the Critical Care to help boost fiber and fluids, skip the motility stuff.

What do you think about Metacam? I noticed when Zachary made two poops this evening while I was collecting a urine sample for the glucose strips, he didn't make a sound. I hate using an analgesic unless it's really necessary. ?

Thanks again. As always, lots of good information and suggestions from this group.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:08 pm


If you have ruled out stones, ruled out UTI, ruled out any other apparent reasons, it could be a chronic inflammation of the bladder. Chippy has periodic bouts of crying while peeing and passing small amounts of blood. There never has been infection and her sludge is completely gone--has been for about a year--yet, these bouts continue.

Metacam works well for her and this last time, a three-day course brought her weight back up almost two ounces.

Also, it's been a while but I seem to recall that reglan also stimulates their appetites?

pinta

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:01 am


Yes, apparently it can stimulate the appetite.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:09 am


The confusing thing(s) in all of this, is that he doesn't cry when urinating; it seems to only be when he has a bowel movement. That's what first caught my attention on Christmas Eve, and when I lifted up the fleece in his cage that day, I saw a significant amount of blood on the towels. I was shocked, because he seemed like his old self otherwise.

After a couple of days on Bactrim, the blood disappeared (although it continues to show up in trace amounts on test strips).

Zachary's energy level is the same, his appetite is the same (wipes out pellets, veggies, hay), water consumption the same. Seems to be urinating a little more frequently than usual. He has lost a couple of ounces over the past month that I can't really explain. I thought at first that it was just my scale, but the vet noticed it, too.

His poops are starting to look slightly more normal, but are still on the small side. No sludge in his urine.

I'm going to start the Metacam today, ship off a urine sample on Monday, and play it by ear.

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