*URGENT* Passing blood...squeaking

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Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:58 pm

WALGREENS. I didn't even think of that. We do have one; it's on the other end of town. Is yours just plain potassium citrate, then? 99mg?

Mine is probably okay, but I would have preferred it without all the other stuff.

What dose are you using?

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Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:15 pm

sef- It's "Cytra-3 Syrup". His does was originally .2 cc with water but lowered to .1 cc. You need a prescription from your vet and they will put your pig into their system.

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Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:20 pm

Polycitra is a prescription. You'll need a vet to Rx it. I don't know a thing about any of the others.

ETA: Duh! Avryl just said it has to be rx'd.

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Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:06 pm

Well, now I'm confused. My vet had said that potassium citrate is not a prescription. That's why I asked if potassium citrate and Polycitrate are the same thing. So...you're saying I don't want potassium citrate; I want Polycitrate, and I need to ask my vet to call it into a pharmacy, right?

Damn. Zachary is really having some discomfort this evening. I already gave him a dose of Metacam this a.m. and a dose of Torb this evening. Not good.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:52 am

I was given a prescription for Polycitra-K which is citric acid and potassium citrate oral solution. Perhaps the vet just doesn't realize that a prescription is needed.

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Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:12 am

She had discussed potassium citrate, not citric acid & potassium citrate. I didn't understand that they were two different things. Plain potassium citrate you can get at health food stores (that's what I bought); apparently the citric acid ingredient of Polycitra is what makes it a prescription item.

Now that I know what to ask for, I'll get in touch with her on Monday.

This is all so frustrating. I feel like I'm wasting valuable time going back and forth, not getting what I need, not having the resources avaialble to me.

He's crying quite a bit again this morning. Last night I ended up giving him more Metacam that I probably should have, but he was really hunching and crying and the lower dose wasn't doing squat. I can't say that the extra Metacam did much to help, though.

I'm hesitant to push Torb, since motility has been an issue (gas; small poops).

Is Tramadol better tolerated?

Is there a reason why just plain Ibuprofin isn't used instead of Metacam? Both are NSAIDs. I'm just wondering what the difference is. ?

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Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:13 pm

When he finishes crying when he pees or poops, does he go back to acting normal?

Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:59 pm

Sending more good thoughts for Zachary.

Not sure if this will help, but Salana mentioned a difference between Metacam and Ibuprofen on this thread.

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Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:31 pm

When he finishes crying when he pees or poops, does he go back to acting normal?
Yes. Actually, if it weren't for the crying and hunching, you wouldn't know anything is wrong because he still trots around in his cage, munches hay, or plays on the sofa with me, etc. His eyes are bright, his coat looks good, and he doesn't even look like he has lost weight (but he has--quite a bit).

Vet gave me Tramadol today and a refill of Metacam.

Thanks, tracis -- I'll take a look shortly. :)

You can quote me

Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:45 pm

Ibuprofen is harder on the GI tract (read: stomach ulceration) than meloxicam. My husband has an ulcer from Motrin.

Having said that, we've used infant's Motrin successfully in a pinch for our guinea pigs. Not for very long (one or two doses), but it seemed to do the job we needed it to do for as long as we needed it to.

Tylenol is not recommended, in general, on this board but we used it very successfully, long-term, for one of ours with chronic GI problems. IIRC the dose we used was 1 mg/kg, and we went higher from time to time with no problems.

I mixed the infant's formula (80 mg per dose) into 80 mL of fruit juice => 1 mg/mL solution.

Klynne: do you think Banamine could help Zachary? (without looking back to see if you've already mentioned it.)

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Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:39 pm

She hasn't mentioned Banamine. What is it?

I asked Dr. Johnson about Diazepam (sp?), but he said it would zonk him out too much. My worry is motility problems on the Tramadol, since Sebastian had issues w/ Torb longer-term. Does anyone here know what the recommended dose is for Tramadol in guinea pigs? I'm giving him .2cc twice a day, at Dr. J's instruction. He said it could be safely used with Metacam.

I'm backing the Metacam back down to around .03cc's but haven't given him any so far today. I wanted to see how well the Tram works.

Am doing subcues every other day, 15cc's. Dr. Mehringer had said daily, but I'm paranoid that it will over-tax his kidneys.

Dr. J's comment today was, "We were just surprised by the number of stones." Tell me about it. It's so damn frustrating that I don't know how to slow them down or prevent more from forming, because I have no idea what's causing them.

Seriously considering having one of our "healthy" pigs xrayed, just to see if it is likely to be something environmental going on, OR just genetics (and a big huge coincidence that three of our guys have had them).

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:01 am

I continue to be in the same boat as you sef, but wanted to add what is going on with Kirbs that might help. He has been on Baytril when the blood first appeared in his urine(Dec 1st) and that didn't help. Then he was switched on my insistence to Septra. He's been on this since Dec 18th. THe blood stopped, but he was still hunching and squeaking while peeing. I stopped the Septra for two - three days last week since I didn't see an improvement and thought his poops might be getting smaller. Blood came back! He became lethargic. I started him on the Septra again two days ago. Blood is gone and he seems to be his old self. Still crying while peeing, however and his output was not too great. I started him on dandelions after reading about that on this thread. Urine output is considerably better. His appetite has improved too. He's still on the metacam 2x per day. THis morning he practically flew over the cage in excitement when he realized I had dandelions for him! Perhaps they need more forage type greens in their diet vs the more cultivated lettuces and veggies we provide them?

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Post   » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:37 am

See, I have always thought that, too. Another vet once commented to me that he tends to attribute a lot of guinea pig issues to the fact that, as pets, everything in their lives is un-natural -- the diet, the habitat. Not that it would be practical or even advisable to try to duplicate their natural diet or habitat (considering what a wild guinea pig's lifespan is), but...he had a point. Pellets, endive and timothy hay aren't exactly what their bodies were originally made to eat. Especially pellets.

There is a product that I'm looking into (again) called "Green Mush." Pretty sure I started a thread on it a couple of years ago...I may hunt for it and see what others had to say about it.

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Post   » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:48 pm

I don't know if it's the Tramadol or what, but Zach's still making tiny poops and he's a little fluffed up this evening and not interested in his Critical Care. I'm wondering if the dose is too high.

There is no reference to Tramadol in the Formulary that I can find...online search found a few "dog" references that place the dose at 2-4mg/kg. Does anyone here know if that's correct? Is it Q12h or 24h?

Based on Zach's weight (just under 1kg, now), and the concentration (2mg/cc) it looks like Dr. Johnson is dosing at the higher end -- 2cc's twice a day. ?

Has anyone else here had an experiences with inappetence w/ opiates?

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We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:19 pm

Wish I could help you more. Oreo was on torb and wasn't eating a thing. But I have no idea whether that was due to the medication, pain, or the molar problems making it difficult for her to eat. I happen to be taking Tramadol, myself, right now. I know it's a kind of opiate, although I'm finding it rather mild compared to some meds I've taken in the past. But then, I'm not a guinea pig.

I sure hope you can find something to help get Zach some relief.

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Post   » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:25 am

Something is really wrong. I need some help.

Earlier tonight, Zachary had his veggies but I couldn't get him interested in his Critical Care. He had been really wolfing it down up until yesterday (Monday); I had just run out, and got a new batch in the mail yesterday. I was wondering if maybe the taste wasn't quite the same.

Anyway...handfeeding didn't go well, so I put him back in his cage. He seemed mopey, so a little while later I asked my husband to hold him for a while. Zach didn't make his usual happy, cooing sounds in my husband's lap. Just sort of sat there. I've never seen that before. Didn't necessarily look like he felt bad; just very aloof.

I also held him before we went to bed, and it was the same thing -- not cooing, and not his usual affectionate self. Didn't chubble when I put him on the bed. His eyes were bright and he wasn't fluffed up, but somehow not right. The only way I can think to put it is "out of it." He walked around a little, then went under the covers and hid. I went ahead and put him back in his cage.

Woke up a little while ago and came down to check on him. He looked at me a couple of times from his hay box, but then hopped out and went into his hidey. He doesn't usually go there at night; lately, it seems to be where he goes when he just wants to be left alone. I gave him a couple of pieces of lettuce, which he did come out and munch, but he just went right back into his hidey. Something isn't right. He is peeing and making small poops, his eyes are bright, coat not fluffed up, and he drank a little water and had a little hay a few minutes ago, but he is ignoring me (something he never goes; he's always so interested in what we're doing).

I'm not sure how to put it, but...his personality seems totally different suddenly. Has anyone ever experienced this? I'm afraid he is losing the will to fight this.

I don't know what to do. If he's still like this in the morning, my husband and I may be faced with making that horrible decision. We do NOT want Zachary to suffer, but...damn. He seemed better just this morning, with a good appetite and not crying quite as much with the Tramadol. Could something be going on with that one blocked kidney that might be causing this? Uremia? I was looking at the symptoms of uremic poisoning just now, and personality change IS listed as a symptom (in humans): As kidney failure progresses, patients often become drowsy or sleepy. They may sleep more, and it may become difficult to arouse them from sleep. The ability to think clearly or accomplish mental tasks may become impaired, memory may become imprecise and personality can change. As the kidney failure becomes worse, patients can become disoriented or confused, develop slurred speech, suffer from seizures and eventually fall into a coma.

Please tell me what I should do-???

Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:40 am

It does sound like something is bothering him. Poor sweet guy.

Is he still on many different medications? Could it be a combination of them that is making him act differently?

Pain, too, might be a reason why he feels like being alone.

You've done so many wonderful things for Zachary, and this must be devastating. I'm sorry that things are not going well tonight.

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Post   » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:07 am

Thanks, tracis. You might be right -- I'm wondering if maybe the Tramadol is making him "out of it." I still can't find any information on dosing...for all I know, the .2cc's could be WAY high for a guinea pig. I hate giving drugs that I know nothing about.

I just gave him 20cc's of Ringers (he didn't have any yesterday) and he munched on a plate of veggies. We'll see how things look in the morning. I may keep him off the Tramadol and just go with the Metacam and see if that could be what's causing this. If it were uremia, it seems like there would be a lot of other symptoms-? Is it even possible to suffer from uremic poisoning if the other kidney is still functioning? Again, something I know absolutely nothing about.

I need to go to bed and let him get some rest. He just went up into his hay loft...is crying and hunching, but at least he's not hiding now and his nibbling some hay. I'm going to take that as a halfway good sign for now.

New Year is off to a bad start for many of us here, it seems. :(

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Post   » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:15 am

One more thing before I sign off...I can hear Zachary's stomach rumbling from over here. He just had a small plate of veggies while I gave him fluids. I do think the Tramadol is messing up his motility (more so than it usually is). Could he have a motility drug along with the Tramadol? I'd hate for him to be on so many different medications, but I'm wondering if it might at least help his gut situation. ?


Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:42 am

Good thoughts for Zachary.

Not sure if you've read this thread already - Brimstone's Radar was prescribed Tramadol, and she listed his dosage.

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