*URGENT* Passing blood...squeaking

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Becky

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:21 pm


My suspicion had been that it was more related to pooing than urination, too, since I notice it happens during poos more often.

This is just speculation on my part since I'm not that familiar with their anatomy, but I think the colon and bladder are so close together that passing poos past an inflammed bladder might cause more pain than just passing urine.

Chippy loses weight everytime she has one of these episodes. A day or so on Metacam and her weight goes right back up.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:07 pm


Can I ask for some dosing question -- the vet dosed the Metacam at .8cc once a day. Zachary's weight is approximately 2 lbs. 12 ounces. In looking at the dosing info on analgesics, .8cc looks a little high. Shouldn't it be closer to .5cc based on his weight?

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Becky

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:38 pm


I give Chippy Metacm Suspension 1.5 mg/ml at a dose of 0.2 mls twice a day as needed. She's approximately 1000 grams, so hers would be less, but 0.8 does sound high.

I'll let those more comfortable with the conversions address this, though. I'm pretty stoopid when it comes to anything involving a decimal point.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:00 pm


Becky, you and me both.

Well, I'm confused now. You mention the suspension at 1.5mg/ml. On the label of Metacam that the vet gave me, it shows the concentration as 10ml.

Zachary weighs 1.3 kg. Do I multiply that times the .2 mg/kg that is shows on the dosage chart for Metacam here? That would be .26.

Where does the concentration figure into it?

Ugh; I feel so stupid.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:17 pm


I think there are (two?) different concentrations of Metacam. One, like I have, comes in a purple and white bottle and is 1.5MG per ML. At that concentration, I give 0.15ml once a day.

You need to know exactly what concentration you have. You say 10ml - but 10ml per what?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:19 pm


No. The concentration is not 10ml; A concentration would be in mg per ml or mg/ml. What you have is a quantity. Like a tablespoon. He gave you a couple teaspoons of this stuff.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:52 pm


Great; so I have no way of knowing if that is the correct dosage or not. And I never give meds without double-checking the dosage.

The label just says "Metacam 10ML Quantity 0.5 Give .8cc orally once daily for pain and inflammation."

Is there a concentration of Metacam that would make .8cc the right dose for a pig that weighs 1.3kg?

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:06 pm


Okay, I have been online looking for Metacam oral suspensions. Unless there is another type of Metacam that I'm missing, I only see it in the 1.5mg/ml concentration.

If I take Zachary's weight of 1.3kg and multiply times the recommendation on GL of .2mg/kg, I get .26. If I divide that by the assumed concentration of 1.5mg/ml, I get .17cc.

I also found a veterinary website that says Metacam is generally dosed at a rate of .1mg per lb. of body weight. Even if I bump Zachary's weight up to and even 3 lbs, that STILL only gives me a dosage of .3 -- and I assume that is based on dog weight.

I really, really need someone to help me with this, because if Metacam only comes in the 1.5mg/ml concentration and this vet has prescribed it at .8cc for a 1.3 kg pig, then it means I need to find myself a new vet - pronto!

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:43 pm


I never give more than 0.3, and then only very rarely, if necessary. You might do a search on this board - I have an idea someone once talked about another suspension? Did you not get the original bottle? If in doubt, I would dose at the lower dosage.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:16 pm


I hate to be such a pest here, but I want to know if this vet has screwed up.

I've searched this board and multiple veterinary sites, and the only concentration on the oral suspension I can find is the 1.5mg/ml. The injectible comes in different concentrations, but I just can't find anything else for the oral. And I know this is the oral stuff, because it is honey-flavored (according to the vet).

If I'm interpreting everything correctly, then it sure looks like she has seriously over-dosed it. She didn't give me the original bottle...the Metacam is in a small plastic vial with supposedly a week's worth in it.

I'm really troubled by this.

pinta

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:41 pm


I hear rumours that at the VIN site vets have discussed giving 6 drops in a dose. Seems to be a wide swing. If you search you might find the equivalent of a drop. For now just give what you're comfortable with until you can get confirmation from your vet.

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Becky

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:02 pm


If I were you, I'd not go higher than 0.3ml. Much safer to underdose than overdose, in my opinion.

I suspect the suspension is the same all over. Stick to the safer dose and hash it out later.

If she's already received a larger dose and is doing OK, I wouldn't worry too much. Just don't do any more doses at that level.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:19 pm


No, I hadn't given him any Metacam...I was in the process of double-checking the dosage first, as (bad) experience has taught me to do.

The bad thing is, this is a new exotics vet who recently took the place of our very excellent exotics vet (it's his clinic, but he's terminally ill and can no longer practice). I was hoping she would be reliable, as there aren't many in this area who are experienced with cavies. We're not off to a good start.

Anyway, thanks again for all the advice and help on this.

twopawsup

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:13 am


glad to see the updates, busy with a house sale/looking for a place (that will take pets of course)that took me away for a bite. Thanks for the complimates. My old girl go throughs sessions very similar to all this. She however, is loaded with multiple tumors, including lymph node. Biopsy and tumor removal histos when this all started were equal to lipomas and not cancer, so we just keep her happy--And she is-eats Cavy Cuisine Performance and the Vitc's tabs great and loves her veggies. I must confess she only will eat mix hay from my pony which is high quality home grown at the barn he is at. She will refuse to eat any other and won't even nest in it.
Anyways, still trying to get her avatar on her, but when she is having a flare up and is wheeking when passing urine and blood tinged urine I treat her with SMZ or baytril and her symptoms clear up. Since she does have multiple tumors (and could pass for a boy with someone who didn't know GP anatomy), we chalk it up to the tumors causing irritation. She is not passing glucose in her urine (normal ph on GP's is high at 8.5-9 FYI) and also in my experience a dip stick that is positive for WBCs (leukocytes) is NOT accurate! We find this especially if the bottle of strips has been open for a while regardless of expiration date. Unfortunately, you piggie must have something causing the blood cells in the urine and we may never know, but using the low dose (sorry Metacam as I said, I am not familiar with and I do not have access to VIN, just VSPN) based on your info is the way to go. Yes, reglan does tend to stimulate appetite, along with SQ fluids with like 0.1cc of b vitamin given SQ also. But we only use that in severe ill GP's. Unfortunately in rural Vermont, our patients don't always have as attentive owners, and that goes for dogs/cats too :(
All this may be a renal issue, but sometimes, urine and bloodwork will not show this until real compromised. I have found also with my senior girl, the change from the Oxbow cavy to the performance meant for pups has helped keep her weight on her-gradual transition. She has been able to handle this well along with one tab of the Vit c from Oxbow. I read somewhere also to bump ill cavies up to an extra 1/2-1 tab of the vit c tabs when ill. Sorry don't remember where. Ok, sorry for the late catch up, but good luck!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:18 am


It helps if you put a line of white space between your paragraphs. Your post is hard for me to read so I am not reading it.

Like this.

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sef1268

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:13 pm


Well, here is a rather frightening update. Obsessing over the dosage on the Metacam, I finally broke down and called the veterinary office to see if they could page the vet who prescribed it, to ask if she would please re-calculate the dosage for me. They confirmed that it was the 1.15mg/ml concentration, so I was even more convinced that a big mistake had been made.

Sure enough, the vet tech called me back just a few minutes ago, and told me that the instructions on the vial were wrong -- the dose should have been .08 -- not .8. OMG.

Guess this was one incident where my OCD actually paid off.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:15 pm


Goodness - what a dreadful mistake. Thank heavens you were so concerned and checked it.

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Becky

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:05 pm


I think that's too low to really accomplish anything. Even bony Elvis with bone problems get's 0.15 ml. That's nearly double the 0.08 dose. I'm suspicious that they're not sure what the dose should be.

Josephine? Mel? Someone want to address this further?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:21 pm


My boy with the severe boneloss gets .15 once a day, also.

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sef1268

Post   » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:28 pm


Well, this vet has already lost credibility with me, by mis-dosing it the first time. Maybe she was just trying to cover her butt by saying "It was a typo; supposed to be .08cc," or maybe she is just guessing at this point. At any rate, I went ahead and bumped the dose up to .1cc. Even though the pig is having only minor discomfort (apparently), I agree that .08 seems awfully low.

Anyone know of any good exotics vets around the Evansville, IN area?

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