*URGENT* Passing blood...squeaking

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pax
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:59 pm


I am sorry you and Zack are going through this. I know you have done all that is possible for the little guy. It is truly a day by day thing. Keeping him in my thoughts. Kirby says "Come on Zack, we can fight this together!'

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:22 pm


Thanks. It has not been a good day.

Do you think I should photo-copy the article by Hillyer & Quesenberry and take it with me when we go? I have no idea how effective metronidazole is, or if he would tolerate it, or what cisapride/reglan would do when he's pooping but it's such a soft mess. Thought they were both for slow motility. Maybe I don't understand how they work. ?

Can anyone here suggest something I can use to clean Zachary's feet? These darn poops are getting stuck to his feet, and then they dry into a hard mess. This is despite cleaning his feet several times a day. His feet are getting red and irritated. Plain soap on a wash cloth isn't very effective without really scrubbing, and it hurts when I do that. Is there anything that would work better?

And any suggestions on how to get him to eat hay?? I have tried everything -- cheap hay, good hay, timothy hay, orchard grass, bluegrass, alfalfa, oat hay. Nothing. The only thing I haven't tried yet, is Oxbow's botanical hay. Maybe I'll pick some up tomorrow and give that a try, although he didn't like it when I bought some a few months ago (none of our boys did).

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:31 pm


Give him a little foot soak a couple of times a day. If you dry him off gently it should not leave him red.

I've found that severely compromised pigs do seem to give up on hay - I think it just takes too much effort for them to chew.

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:43 pm


He did get a foot soak last night with some diluted chlorhex, but wasn't at all happy about it. It's not bad enough that has to feel like crap all the time, but then I come along and bother him constantly with meds, and foot soaks, and subcues, and handfeeding, and messing with his ears, etc.

I have to wonder if we are being incredibly selfish by having him live like this. :(

This is so depressing.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:55 pm


sef, only you can tell if he's had enough.

A nice warm foot soak shouldn't be so bad. But if even this is too much for him then perhaps you do need to have a good look at the quality of his life.

I really don't want this to come across the wrong way, and I know how much you adore this pig.

I'm going through a similar decision making at the moment, but I can honestly look at the pig in question and say that 95% of the time he seems very happy and content.

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:15 pm


I know, and I do appreciate what you're saying Mum. I just don't know the answer. He has days like this, but then he'll also have times when he is wheeking for food, chewing the bars on his cage, enjoying being held by his dad, etc. The last "good" day that he had, though, was last week before this stuff with his bowels started up.

Before that, he had gained a little weight, seemed really perky and energetic, and his poops were looking better than they had in a long time. Vet was impressed and said how good he looked, last time we were in, and we were feeling encouraged for the first time in two months.

And now this.

It's this roller-coaster of ups and downs that is so tough emotionally...makes it so hard to know if we're doing the right things.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 pm


It's this roller-coaster of ups and downs that is so tough emotionally...makes it so hard to know if we're doing the right things.
It's incredibly hard - I do know that.

Maybe keeping a list of good days vs bad days will help. It seems to me that the good days should out-number the bad days.

TwoWhitePiggies

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:31 am


Poor sef, and poor Zach. I hope you can get him comfortable again.

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pax
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:41 am


Making lists always helps me sort things out, too. You never know what will happen with these little guys. He obviously has quite a determined spirit to keep fighting. Maybe he will let you know when he's had enough of a struggle. Keeping you and Zach in my thoughts.
Pax

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somechick

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:37 am


I wish I had anything good to say. I only know that (looking back) I was probably in denial with Piggie Crocket. Knowing what I know now, I should have let her pass peacefully. But while I was in it and trying to help her, even though she was grumpy a lot, I never really saw that. I hung on to the one time she'd eat a day, or the one time she'd give me a lick. And one lick outweighed the other 23.75 hours of hell.

I can't change it now, but if there's any way you can take yourself out of it for a minute and look at it as if you were an outsider. That's the only thing I can think of.

You guys are in our thoughts. He's made it quite a long ways based on his prognosis.

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:24 pm


Thanks. My husband took him in this morning, to have his teeth looked at and to prescribe something else for the loose stools. She did decide to go the metronidazole route, so we started that today. Fingers crossed that he can tolerate it, and that it will help.

She looked at his molars, but said she didn't see anything wrong with them. Her comment was that, with kidney disease and elevated BUN, there can be a strange/metallic taste in the mouth. She thought that might be why he's making strange mouth movements sometimes when he chews. She also felt that elevated BUN was putting him off the hay.

I guess I need to see how he does on the metronidazole. If we can get his bowels working better, I think (hope) he'll feel a little better and hopefully start eating his hay again.

*sigh* One day at a time.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:27 pm


sef, what's his BUN level at? His creatinine?

I'm asking, because one of my vets is having trouble interpreting this result for Llewelyn's recent bloodwork.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:32 pm


I'm wishing for the best for you and Zachary. I hope he has a comfortable day.

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:59 pm


Thanks, tracis.

We don't know, Mum. Our vet tried to get bloodwork done under sedation a few weeks ago, but just couldn't get it. She's assuming that it's elevated, based it on his overall condition and the symptoms we're seeing. We don't have actual numbers to work with.

On a separate note...can anyone tell me what the difference is between using Lactated Ringers vs. straight saline? Is there an advantage to one over the other for a kidney-compromised pig?

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mkkayla
Supporter in '14

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:51 pm


I think your safer with the saline. LR has electrolytes in it which a kidney compromised pig would have trouble excreting leading to a potential overdose. Hopefully some one more knowledgeable will come on soon to say for sure.

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:25 pm


We're using Ringers now. I'm wondering if I should switch-??

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:06 am


You have probably already read this, but here is Josephine's reference thread about fluid therapy:

Fluid Theraphy/Giving Subcutaneous Fluids

She listed several conditions, and which fluids were best.

More good thoughts for Zachary.

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:38 am


Thanks, tracis! Yes, I had read that. Josephine says:

Chronic Renal (Kidney) Failure (CRF): LRS, NSR, or 0.9% NaCl

I'm still not clear on what the difference is, in terms of what they actually do. My vet said we could alternate if I wanted to; I asked which was most beneficial, and she said they were about the same as far as helping flush the kidneys and keep him hydrated. Since he was doing well on the LRS, I opted just to keep him on that.

I didn't realize there was a potential issue with electrolyte over-dose with LRS-?

What are the signs (if any) of electrolyte over-dose? Dr. M won't be back in the office until later this week, but I guess I'll ask her about it then.

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Amy0204
We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:22 pm


Not sure whether this is helpful or not. Oreo only received Saline.

http://icuroom-pearls.blogspot.com/2006/02/dblranss.html

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:24 pm


Our vet tried to get bloodwork done under sedation a few weeks ago, but just couldn't get it
If your vet is willing to try, I get all my bloodwork drawn through a toenail overclip.

The key is warming the foot first, and then it goes very easily.

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