Sundae

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:21 pm


I think I mentioned to you that I used to feed Sundae about a teaspoon of oats mixed with pumpkin and cc, twice daily. He loved them.

These were steel cut oats, which are very tiny - not the same as rolled oats (I buy them from Trader Joe's).

klynne

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:22 pm


I've used both oats (rolled, whole) and sunflower seeds for emaciated pigs and bunnies. I've also used flax meal--it's great for fatty acids and Omega's.

Once they were at a more normal weight, we weaned onto a more balanced and traditional diet.

With Sundae's issues, I guess I see this as hospice care.

Worrying over whether sunflower seeds or whatever is not generally recommended reminds me of worrying over a terminal cancer patient getting addicted to pain meds.

Glad Lynx pointed it out, for lurkers who might be thinking, "Oh, I can feed any pig lots of seeds and maybe some of the kiddo's Gummi bears, too," but for Sundae, I'd do what works, and what he'll eat.

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LAWomans
"Live Long and Prosper"

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:42 pm


Klynne,

Thanks for the advice. I agree that feeding him whatever he will eat is the best thing. Actually, he does not have a tumor or any growths, just really bad teeth issues. I had him checked out thoroughly and nothing showed up, thank heavens.

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rshevin

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:44 pm


Rolled oats seem just as controversial as the sunflower seeds but I have a pig who I need to put weight on too so if you find something that's GI safe and works, please, do tell!

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:51 pm


Actually, he does not have a tumor or any growths,
Um, you had neither an xray nor an ultrasound.

I've told you I'll show/send you Sundae's xray.

Without having any of these tests done, or seeing the xray I had done, you don't have all the information I thought I had passed on to you.

A gross physical check is obviously inadequate for detecting most issues, as you know.

There's nothing I'd like better than to hear that the growth shown on xray is benign.

klynne

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:56 pm


Mum, just for us learners here, is there any way you can post Sundae's Xray on the thread?

Gosh, even benign tumors can kill, though, based on size and location.

I also hope Sundae is free of these issues. He is a really special little guy.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:02 pm


I'll have to pick it up from the vet's office and take a pic - will try to do that tomorrow.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:02 pm


If you use oats, try to use the least refined type to get the most fiber and nutrients.

Oats are starchy and should also be used carefully. They can be used in good quality pellets (they are one of the ingredients in KM's pellets). What you do is look at the whole diet. If a pig was not eating pellets, I think a small amount of oats could be acceptable for a normal pig.

Just remember variety and moderation.

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rshevin

Post   » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:21 pm


My lightweight pig does get pellets as well as pellet mush and pumpkin most nights in my lap (it's nice bonding time and healthy, a double good whammy). That's why I'm so hesitant to go with oats.

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LAWomans
"Live Long and Prosper"

Post   » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:33 pm


Thanks for all of the great ideas and advice. I appreciate all of the help. This is such a wonderful place to get information! You all have been so helpful! I was at a loss what to do in this situation.

I actually found a baby food with sweet potatoes and corn, which he loves. I gave him some rolled oats which he also liked, but he doesn't eat enough on his own to put on the weight very fast. It's interesting that he is putting on some meat over his ribs and shoulders, even though the scale isn't showing a big increase. The additional Meticam is helping because he is now trying to eat more hay. When I syringe feed him he chews the CC like it was regular food, so it takes forever to get it in him, but he seems comfortable.

cutemomomi
Obey My Authority

Post   » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:14 pm


First of all, congratulations on your latest addition!
And... oops, nothing to add to the "medical part" of the thread. :)

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LAWomans
"Live Long and Prosper"

Post   » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:37 pm


Momo,

Thanks! I guess I now qualify as having a herd! Who would have thought!?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:38 pm


" ... the sunflower seeds you recommended are a huge hit. How much do you suggest I feed him daily?"

I'd give ours a little pile (not very high), somewhere between the size of a penny and a quarter, a couple of times a day. Sometimes the piles would be a little smaller, sometimes a little larger; sometimes he got them once a day, twice a day, more, or not at all. I didn't try to be real consistent with it, but I did notice that if we gave him more than about that rough amount at one time, his feces got a little slimy/oily/softish looking.

He did better with them having smaller amounts given more frequently. He also didn't inhale them. He really enjoyed them, but would eat about that much, then stop. He didn't seem to want to gorge on them.

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LAWomans
"Live Long and Prosper"

Post   » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:16 pm


Talishan, thanks! That's about the way Sundae is eating his sunflower seeds. Maybe they are so rich they are more filling. Have you ever fed rolled barley? I got some from the feed store but I wanted to wait to feed them until I checked to see if barley is OK.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:51 pm


Not only do I not know if it is okay, I don't even know what it is.

I am very much *so* not a country girl. :-p I'm sorry. Hopefully someone will have some good advice for you soon.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:55 pm


From Sundae's xray (sorry, poor photo):

mass shown (that round thing you can see) around area of gallbladder (bloodwork indicates mass not in gallbladder):

Image

lateral view:

Image

And a view of his heart:

Image

klynne

Post   » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:50 pm


Hey, LAWomans, how is Sundae doing now? Any more news from your vet?

What did he say on the Xrays?

(I'm just now seeing them, and they certainly are interesting--would like to know how an expert interprets them.)

How's his weight? Sure hope he's still at least holding his own, if not gaining.

Mum, thanks for posting these. I really think the more gp Xrays we get to look at, the better we can deal with it when we go over our own pig's films with our vets.

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:59 pm


How is he doing?

klynne

Post   » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:39 pm


Hey, LAWomans, I'm hoping you're just busy and haven't had time to update, but bumping this up anyway.

How's cutie Sundae?

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LAWomans
"Live Long and Prosper"

Post   » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:16 pm


Sus and klynne,

Thanks for checking. I have been knee deep in Guinea Pigs and rabbits lately, as well as work! Just keeping everyone cool in this heat wave is a project!

Sundae is doing just fine. He has some meat on his ribs and shoulders now.

I discovered that although he is slowly gaining weight, I am basically just maintaining him with the CC. I spoke to Dr. Kanfer yesterday and she said we sort of have a double edged sword with him He needs to be syringe fed but that can allow his teeth to get worse since he has no fiber from hay. He can't eat pellets, either. So, all we can do his get him stable to a point where she can do his teeth and get the hooks off of his molars. He also has the impacted roots, but she said many times, just planing the teeth properly relieves the pressure enough so they are comfortable. He is on Meticam twice a day now.

She said he probably won't gain a lot of weight until he can eat normally. This makes sense since even if I syringe feed him several times a day the CC doesn't have enough calories in it to fatten him up.

I will let everyone know when we feel he can have his teeth done. In the meantime, all good thoughts and prayers are appreciated!

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