Soft poop: what the vet said

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:45 pm


somechick,
I know what you mean about chatty pigs. I have a hard time with that with Piggy myself. All I can suggest is to try and hold her somewhat loosely and assume she'll struggle or try to escape it if isn't comfortable. I've never heard him fart but phew can you smell it!

They could be both cecal and soft poos. The few cecal pellets I've seen are definatly greener than regular poos. About the color of a forrest green crayon perhaps.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:33 pm


"But she's so chatty that I don't know if I'm bothering her or she's just being noisy."

You'll be able to tell. She may actually enjoy it, at least for a short while. But if not, she'll either make what you'll recognize as an aggravated noise, and if it's helping her, you may not necessarily want to stop just then. But if it really makes her uncomfortable, she'll let you know. She may make a sharp squeal, or some other noise that you'll immediately recognize as QUIT.

klynne

Post   » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:04 am


Somechick, I would not discontinue Simethicone as directed by a vet; I'd just try to find an alternative brand.

In my case, we used motility drugs, Reglan and Cisapride, after getting a clear Xray of the abdomen to make sure there were no blockages. A moving, working GI system passes the gas right on thru.

I also use herbal treatments, like Chamomile and Peppermint, quality herbs that I get from an herbalist friend--but these are not *proven* to work and there aren't really any known dosages, so I cannot tell others to use them or not--it's just my choice for my critters.

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somechick

Post   » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:38 pm


Okay, well there's been no squeels of pain and also no bad smells so maybe I'm not belly rubbing effectively. I don't know if it's helping either. While she might actually be gassy, today her poos were...wronger than usual. There were three or four that were connected by a string of I don't know what. Looks like we'll be doing a fecal next week.

I was hoping there'd be some improvement by now. There was the slight weight gain, but the poos are still not right. She still sounds hollow while tapping her sides I *think* but I can't get a steady enough grab on her to tell.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:28 pm


"There were three or four that were connected by a string of I don't know what."

The string is a mucosal substance that I believe is produced in the intestinal tract. I think their bodies use it to 'encase' or form the normal feces.

This can be a sign of dehydration. Is she drinking enough? Try syringing her some unflavored Pedialyte. Most of them love it.

Unfortunately, the fecal next week sounds like a good idea. She may also benefit from subcutaneous fluids.

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somechick

Post   » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:40 am


She's definitley drinking. I hear her and Henry at the bottle all day making racket. Looks like fecal it is. Sigh...one pig gets better and the other gets sick.

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rshevin

Post   » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:09 am


Make sure she's eating enough also and keep the probiotic going.

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somechick

Post   » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:01 pm


Piggie is still gassy and tonight the vet rx'ed Reglan because she's not pooping as frequently as she should be. Fecal apparenlty has two parts - microscope and then the float. Microscope was negative and they said they'd call if the float was positive. They didn't call so I'm assuming it's negative.

Not sure what else to say or think. It's obviously gas/gi but not sure what to make of it. Hmm.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:00 pm


I hope the reglan helps.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:05 pm


You might try withholding all veggies for a few days to see if things settle down. Usually a few days of no veggies, limited pellets, and lots of hay settles things down.

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:27 pm


Somechick, be careful the Simethicone suspension you are using does not contain any of the sugar alcohols, as these cause gas and diarrhea in and of themselves, and are completely counterproductive to what you are trying to accomplish. They would be listed under inactive ingredients. Typical ones used are: Maltitol, Sorbitol, Xylitol.
I have to chime in on this: I have a bunch of pigs on medication, and most of them are compounded. They are always compounded using Ora-Sweet which contains sorbitol.

I absolutely understand that any pig (or anybody) can have a reaction to an ingredient, but my thinking is that it's pretty rare, and that the amounts we use are small.

Klynne, I can appreciate your dismay to find that the cure was causing the problem with your pig, but I think it's risky to throw simethicone out of the medicine cabinet. Perhaps we should just treat it with respect, like Baytril, and watch carefully to see if it's working as it should.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:58 am


I'm starting to wonder about the simethicone actually because it hasn't seemed to help. PCs not getting worse, but you'd think after a week the gas would be gone or at least diminished - and shes just as hollow sounding as before. This morning I did Reglan-only to see if that alone would help.

What do you guys think? Should I do both? Just Reglan? Just sim.?

I've held off vegs when I first noticed this for two days and there was no change. I could try again though.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:26 am


Does she seem uncomfortable? In pain? Is it really taut? If not, the reglan could be sufficient. If there's any possibility of bloat you will need to see a vet.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:10 am


I'm hoping the vet would have noticed bloat last night. She's acting totally normal so I don't notice pain/discomfort.

It's only REALLY tight-bubbly-hollow when the vet actively grabs her side to make it into a bubble. She also gets louder then. It might be pain or it could just be annoyance because someones grabbing at her sides. When she's just hanging out at home normally she does not feel tight.

Would bloat be something highly noticable to myself? I guess it would be very tight all over when in a relaxed/normal stance?

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:21 am


I don't see anything wrong with a little experimentation with the meds in case the simethicone is perhaps problematic.

Just out of curiosity, how much simethicone are you giving (volume and concentration)?

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:28 am


I just read the Peter Gurney bloat page. I've read the paragraph about bloat on here too but it doesn't say too much. I'm hoping it's not bloat because there doesn't seem to be any real fix for it. Is there? If there is a blockage, can whatsever in there get taken out somehow? Or if it's just gas will it ever go away?

rshevin - I don't have the bottle with me so when I get home I'll check the stats on it. But whatever it is--the vet said to give .3cc every 4-6 hours. I thought that was a lot so I've only been doing it twice a day. He said I can't overdose on it so maybe I'm not giving enough and I'm doing more harm than good.

Maybe I should ask about bloat and cisapride?

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:42 am


rshevin - I've been searching around the forums and just read your past thread about GI upset in Piggy.

PC *is* pooping, it's just not normal looking and not as frequent as my others. The vet gave me Reglan so I'm assuming he doesn't believe it would harm her. Should I get an x-ray anyway? Keep this Reglan/Simeth combo up until next Friday's visit?

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lisam

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:03 am


In guinea pigs, a blockage is not bloat. I suppose it can cause bloat, but it's not the same that we are talking about here. If your girl is pooping at all she's not blocked.

Simethicone is a very benign drug. Giving not enough isn't doing any harm, but then it's not doing very much good, either. I believe that people here have used varying dosages--your vet certainly prescribed more than what's here on GL--
http://www.guinealynx.info/motility.html#simethicone

I think she's louder because she doesn't like the way the vet grabs her tummy!

User avatar
rshevin

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:37 am


somechick,
I'm glad PC is pooping. That's definately a good sign. Before Piggy totally stopped pooping, he had oddly shappen, soft poos that seem to be similar to how you describe PC's.

There was one incidence about a year ago where he started getting funny poos and I aggressively treated with simethicone, 0.2mL 3xday and he returned to normal without becomming blocked. Depending on the concentration your vet gave you, it may or may not be more than is recommended on GL. I gave slightly more than recommended because I noticed 0.1mL wasn't really working. (What, you don't commit all pig medicines, contrations, dosses to memory? Teasing of course. I can't remember that stuff either.)

I do like to give Piggy the simethicone about 30 minutes before a GI stimulant (cisapride in my case). The idea is that something forcing GI movement with gas could be painful. I have NO evidence, scientific or anacdotal, that this is a good idea. It's something I made up but "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

I also agree she doesn't have full bloat. I had a very, very ill rescue pig develop bloat post-tooth trim and it was terrible. I think it's one of those awful things that's so bad you know it immediately when you see it. If you aren't positive, it isn't and that is a good thing.

There's some indication that PLAIN kaopectate can help with soft stools as well (http://www.guinealynx.info/motility.html#kaopectate) but I don't know about your situation. I'd be wary of giving too many meds. Hopefully the reglan will get things moving through correctly.

Try to encourage lots of movement and exercise as well.

User avatar
luvmypigs2

Post   » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:21 pm


I've used Reglan alone for what your describing and has worked everytime I've used it.

When Tess had a full body xray and it showed that she had a lot of gas, the vet prescribed Cisapride, which she believes is the drug of choice. The problem with Cisapride is that it has to be sent out to a compounding pharmacist which can take a day or two to receive.

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