Candy - weightloss

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:50 pm


I really don't worry about them unless they feel thin (I can feel all their bones). Some pigs are just smaller than others. However, I do find KM's pellets keep my pigs at a nice, round weight (Oxbow don't seem to do this for my pigs).

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barb5417
For all Wonkys & Winkys

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:18 pm


Mum, what do you mix your CC with? the few times I have had to give CC temporarily, the pigs always, always fought it. Thank goodness they started eating again very soon, so I didn't have to worry, but I always wondered what people used? I was using non flavored pedialyte.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:25 pm


I just mix it with water.

I have both flavors of CC, because some pigs prefer one over the other - but Candy likes both!

If I think a pig is dehydrated I mix with plain pedialite.

All my pigs who are on it for any length of time have come to love it. I find it's a sign of a pretty sick pig when they fight the syringe.

Melody R

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:40 pm


Just a curious question - isn't 30-35 cc alot for a small pig at one session? I thought CC recommended around 50 cc/k per day? I always stopped at 15-20cc per feeding so as not to overfeed, so I am curious. Can a pig overeat?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:46 pm


Can a pig overeat?
It really depends on the pig.

Generally, in my opinion, no - they won't overeat cc. But you don't want to give them so much that they stop eating by themselves. It's a judgment call. Candy is many, many ounces underweight. I also have my cc fairly diluted so I can get it through the syringe.

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rshevin

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:17 pm


When I was syringe feeding Smudgie, he'd take almost exactly 20mL of thick CC in one feeding and then he'd turn his head from the syringe. At that point I'd offer another syringe for a minute and if he didn't want it (he never did), I stopped for that session. I agree 30-35mL sounds like a lot but if she's sucking it down willingly, I agree that's fine. I've even had a full pig turn down veggies and leave them for later. Granted that's very, very rare, but it's happened.

I'm glad she loves her CC!

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WEAVER
one pig at a time.

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:38 pm


I am so glad that you have Candy--sounds like she really needs a loving mommy like yourself. Please ignore my ignorance, but what are the chances that Candy can pass the stones herself? I have had more boars in my lifetime and I know when they have to have surgery if they develop a stone, but can a sow usually pass them on her own if they are not to large? I know she is too weak and fraile at this time to even put her through that ordeal. I guess my question is can a sow most of the time pass stones when they develop?

I hope Candy continues to improve. I tried to feed Boris the CC last night and he showed no interest. Now I am slightly worried after reading that all of yours scarf it down unless they have a problem. Wonder if it is time I bring my old man back to the vets...

One more question mum (promise last one---lol). I used to buy the packs of CC, but a while ago I bought the canister seeing I have so many piggies, what is the best way to store it, and how long does it last now that the canister is open?

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:00 pm


Here is a photo of the stone my Evelyn passed in December 06 at the age of 4yrs, 2 months.

Image

She had a little one too but the vet was not concerned about this big one...thought the little one might get stuck but this honkin one was too big to pass. Wrongo! Evey squeeked for 2 days while she was waiting to have surgery...she still passed urine while this was going on, so I (and the vet) just thought it was the pain associated with the stone in the bladder.

We refer to this as Evey's "Rock of Gibraltar."

I think the boys have a rougher time anatomically squeezing out a stone. I think their urethra is substantially longer than the girls...If you ask Evey, though, she'll tell you she thought hers was a mile long!

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:46 pm


I had a pig with a humungous stone that caused absolutely no symptoms at all - it was parked at the bottom of her urethra and was easily removed.

These stones, though are different. There are at least 15 of them, sized like a pinhead, filling her bladder.

We can only hope that they'll break off in little pieces and she'll be able to pass them.

Weaver, I store my CC in the freezer - it lasts for ages like that.

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Becky

Post   » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:05 pm


Ph values are 0-7 is acidic (low ph) and 7-14 is alkaline (high ph) with 7 being neutral. If anyone knows something different, please correct me!

Are you doing daily subcues? I'd certainly do so and keep a close eye for blockage. When their bladders start filling up with stones (and if they're that little, I'd almost call them sludge instead), they seem to produce mucus that can block them up.

Did the x-ray show the kidneys? Any stones there?

It's great that she's eating!

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:20 pm


Mum, I can't find any references for standard urine pH values but I do have pH paper for rough measurements. I could test my 2 boars if you'd like or I can send you some strips to test your herd (or both). We could start a table of averages around GL.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:38 pm


Somewhere recently, somebody posted that her vet said the ph should be 6 - but this was the first reference I'd heard for a 'normal' ph. Yes, it would be great to post your boys ph's. Or I could go out and get some ph test strips and test my other pigs (I wonder if I can use the pool strips, hmm?). Candy's ph was 9, and my vet said we should acidify this if possible. He recommended extra vitamin C to do this, but I'm pretty sure I read something contraindicating exta vitamin C with stones (wish I could pull up that resource).

Becky, I haven't started daily subcues simply for one reason: while she's drinking a LOT each day (yesterday 16 ounce), she's also on lasix for fluid in her lungs. My vet was wary about subcuing her with this fluid and lasix. My thinking was that I'd start subcues in a few days when the fluid is gone (which, of course, I'll know telepathically!. Of course I do know that subcues are always recommended for stones, but I think the fluid in her lungs is something I need to address immediately. But I could easily be wrong on this.

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Becky

Post   » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:51 pm


Ah, I forgot about the lasix.

Candy's ph was 9, and my vet said we should acidify this...

Why on earth would he want to acidify her urine?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:52 pm


Because he thought it was too alkaline, which was causing a base for stones to be formed?

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:54 pm


Because guinea pigs use minerals to make their naturally acidic urine more basic. The theory is that Candy has too many minerals (namely Ca and P) in her urine that aren't being utalized in the nuteralization process. Lowering the pH of the urine would use up the extra minerals and help get rid of the stones.

Mum, you were probably the one who told me about the contraindications of C and stones but I seem to have read it too. I thought that was what polycitra was for?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:01 am


I thought that was what polycitra was for?
Me too. But now I'm going to have to find all the threads!

I did get an rx for it today, and it's waiting for me at the pharmacy. But before I use it I want to be sure it'll be helpful in this particular situation.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:03 am


Calcium carbonate stones (the most common stones formed by guinea pigs) form in a more acidic environment. I really cannot imagine that you would want to lower the ph to "use up the extra minerals and help get rid of the stones." This makes no sense to me.

Because guinea pigs use minerals to make their naturally acidic urine more basic.

Could you offer a more detailed explanation.

Also, guinea pigs have a naturally alkaline urine.

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:04 am


Again, I couldn't quote you a reference, but I think polycitra is specific to the composition of stones found. Since you don't have any that Candy has passed to be analysed (or the $ to waste by having them analyzed), it might be a shot in the dark. If it works, great but if it doesn't, I don't know if there's any potential contraindications to be concerned about.

I have my boys set up right beside me for a free catch urine sample. i.e. They're both in clean carriers and I'm waiting for them to pee. It'll be good. I can test both pH and for the presence of glucose. If there's anything else I can test at home, let me know in the next few minutes!

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:08 am


Polycitra is not specific to the composition of the stone. The only time it would not be recommended is if the stone(s) are/were struvite. Chances are, they are calcium carbonate.

Polycitra, in other animals, makes the urine more alkaline. Since guinea pig urine already is alkaline, the theory is that it introduces more citrates to the urine to bind with the calicum and carry it off in the urine.

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:21 am


Smudgie's pH was around 7 (hard to be exact with a color strip). Negative for urine glucose, as expected. Still waiting on Piggy to pee.

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