Candy - weightloss

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HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:41 am


It would be harmful if the stones were struvite. Where did you read that it didn't change the PH of gp urine? Were there crystals in the urine?

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Becky

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:42 am


It probably won't have much of an effect on the urine ph since their urine already is alkaline, however, UTI's, using antibiotics and other illnesses can lower urine ph, so for people that don't know their pig's ph, it actually could raise it.

Did you read the Mar Vista link? It gives a nice explanation of how polycitra introduces more citrates into the bladder. These bind with the calcium and help it be safely eliminated. That, more than raising the ph, is the theory behind using it for guinea pigs.

And yes, you wouldn't want to use it for struvite, but struvite crystals and stones are extremely uncommon in guinea pigs.

Holly, since there are lots of small stones in the bladder, it's probably safe to assume there are crystals as well.

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:46 am


Becky, so pigs stones can possibly shrink using polycitra (assuming it's carbonate) or is it just a preventative? God I hope this pig doesn't need surgery.

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Becky

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:52 am


There's no evidence it will shrink stones once they've formed. What it hopefully will do is prevent existing stones from getting larger and new stones from forming.

I think it might be pretty effective with sludge. Certainly, with Chippy, her sludge problem never progressed to stones.

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:53 am


Ah Thanks.

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:46 pm


Hi all.

Someone mentioned having some pH paper laying around. I looked into getting some a year or two ago to help out my daughter's science teacher - they were doing a unit on forensics. As a chemist, when I did that sort of thing, I used a pH meter - I hadn't used the strips since high school. There are broad pH paper/strips that will measure a wide range of acidity/alkalinity. There are also strips you can buy with a tighter range that may be more accurate for the purpose of monitoring piggy urine output. I recall that they were pretty expensive compared to the broad ones. (since kids were going to use/trash them, I went with the cheapo ones...)

If people would like me to get some info on tighter range pH strips, I'd be happy to do some digging.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:15 pm


Joannt - I think that would be a great thing to do.

I started Candy on subcues this morning - I suspect this is the only way there'll be a chance of her passing all those stones.

I absolutely loathe giving subcues - and I must have given at least 50 of them (not a great number but enough I shouldn't find them hard).

*sigh*

I really need to teach my 9-year old how to hold a pig still for me - but she can't bear to be around if there's a needle involved!

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rshevin

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:38 pm


Is Candy still not gaining weight? Poor thing.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:40 pm


Nope. I'm h/f her cc twice a day - just about 15cc each time.

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:53 pm


Hi all!

I have some data on pH strips. It is fairly lengthy - about 50 lines of text including blank lines.

What would be the best way to post this? Directly to the thread? Not a problem for me but I want to be sure I don't freak anyone out with a lengthy post. It consists of name of product, price, amount, sensitivity, and a link to the manufacturer's site for more detailed info. There are 5 products listed.
Also, some info about obtaining product and better pricing via retailers.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:08 pm


If it's not copyrighted information (that is, publicly available), I'd just put it in a post. 50 lines isn't that bad (to me, anyway, but I'm verbose. :-p)

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:55 pm


I ordered these test strips today and hope they'll be accurate enough to test for a bunch of things (I primarily need them for Candy right now).

Candy is now on twice daily subcues, twice daily cc (about 30ccs), bactrim, shilintong, and polycitra-k, along with 50mg of vitamin C and 0.15cc metacam.

She continues to be perky when I take her out, but she hides in her pigloo the rest of the time. When she gets her tiny amount of evening greens (literally 1 cup), she grabs them into her pigloo!

This pig eats every new veggie I throw at her! (Her new favorite is green pepper). But she's not eating much in the way of hay or pellets, so I'll continue with the cc for a while.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:18 pm


I imagine there are specific storage instructions so they stay fresh and work right for a reasonable length of time.

Let us know how handy they are.

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:27 pm


Greetings.

Well, I am going to post the pH stuff below. This will be a bit longer than what I promised since I did some digging on Mum's product, too.

I did have a look at the bottle of indicators that you got Mum...probably a good general test strip. There were no specs on the stuff on the CalVet site, so I noodled around a bit...I found a very similar set of strips that may be a repackage by the vet folks. They test for the exact same thing - but the specs are provided.

http://www.anytestkits.com/urine-tests.htm

That product has a urine pH range of 5-9. Read the specs on this page and see if they compare to the strips you have. It makes a comment that certain heart meds will often alkalinize urine a bit. If these strips have the protein indicator right next to the pH, the acid buffer can wash into the pH site and falsely acidify the pH reading. That can probably be minimized by positioning the strip so pee runs over the side edge...

Since pH 9 seemed to be a "center point," I looked for test strips in a somewhat shifted range. I looked only at chemical companies...The ability to test for other stuff is attractive but at this point, I only looked at pH.

The sites that are listed are for chemical companies that manufacture the pH strips. The reason I posted those is that they usually have the details of the accuracy and other relavent data that you might find of interest in making a buying decision.

The prices listed are SRP (suggested retail price in US Dollars).
You can buy these from the manufacturer but you will generally pay SRP. A retailer will often give you a better price. Once you have looked and decided what you might like, I would suggest you Google the particular product for retailers. For example, the first product, ColorpHast (SRP $19.95) is available for USD $13.49 from VWRLabshop.

http://vwrlabshop.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_0011569

You may be able to find even better prices from a local chemical supplier (check the phone book.) Retailers often buy cases and pass the savings along. I am sure the same or similar products are available from the foreign offices of many of these manufacturers or local retailers.

pH Indicator Strips

ColorpHast - Fisher Scientific (pH Range 6.5-10) Pk of 100 - USD$19.95/ Caseof 6 for $107.75
https://www1.fishersci.com/Coupon?cid=1341&gid=2378903&details=Y
These have a sensitivity of +/- (0.2-0.3 pH units)

Riedel-de Haën - Sigma-Aldrich (pH Range 8.0 - 9.7) Pk of 200 - USD$26.10
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search/ProductDetail/RIEDEL/37112

J.T. Baker - Mallinckodt Baker Chemical (pH Range 7.5 - 9.5) Pk of 100 USD $20.74
http://vwrlabshop.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_0011569
Accuracy is listed as +/- 0.2-0.4 pH units.
Baker's detailed info is wrapped up in their online PDF catalogs...an exercise to retrieve. If you have a desire to see some Baker info, which is minimal, go to
http://www.mallbaker.com/Americas/cofa/default.asp
The product # is 4398 - ask for specification and hit go.

Economical - Fisher Scientific (pH Range 7.0 - 10) 50 strips for USD$3.85
https://www1.fishersci.com/Coupon?cid=1341&gid=2378840&details=Y
No error range supplied but given the price, I would surmize it is at least +/- 0.5 pH units.

Whatman - - Fisher Scientific
https://www1.fishersci.com/Coupon?cid=1328&gid=194538&details=Y
These are fairly broad range strips so the accuracy won't be great.

The wider range strips appear to have an error range of +/- 0.5 pH units, which is fairly significant.

Well, that is a start! I hope that helps a bit.

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:44 pm


Sorry...


"J.T. Baker - Mallinckodt Baker Chemical"

should read

J.T. Baker - Mallinckrodt Baker Chemical

Cheers.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:45 pm


Very beneficial information. Thank you for doing all the digging and research.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:18 pm


What a wonderful research job!

Darn, though - it my strips only test up to a ph of 9, I will have no way of knowing if the figure's gone too high, since Candy already tested at 9 at the vet's office.

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rshevin

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:24 pm


Those pH strips are pretty interesting. An error of +- 0.5 pH units is significant depending on what you're measuring. The ones I have (the Whatman ones) are primarily to determine "acid or base" with elementary school hands on science kids. It would be pretty interesting to do a broad sampling of urine pH for various pigs.

Mum, you can get strips very, very similar to those at any human pharmacy if you're ever in a pinch. You should probably be careful not to touch the test area with your fingers. They typically need to be stored in the dark. Otherwise, the plain glucose ones at least last a long time. That almost gives you a complete urianalysis in a bottle though! You'll know right away if someone has a UTI.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:43 pm


you can get strips very, very similar to those at any human pharmacy if you're ever in a pinch.
My two local pharmacies don't have them (I already checked), and as I was already ordering from Calvet it was easier just to put those in with the rest of the stuff!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:23 pm


Interestingly one of the links says people can use the vetstrips too to test their own urine :-) How novel.

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