Rosie is Limping

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Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:35 pm


Sending good thoughts for Rosie and the girls!

I think that Mkkayla is using HCG for her Cookie.

There are other good links in that thread too.

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Trick

Post   » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:25 pm


Thanks webs, that is very helpful. I'll note that down and I think we'll probably get Rosie her first of three tomorrow when Brie gets her second one. I think I may as well get Brie a third injection as well later. I shall mark things down on the calender for this I think!

Thanks for that link tracis, there are a couple of people there I can mail I think :)

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Trick

Post   » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:33 pm


Back from the vets, the lump is indeed a cyst and it popped itself when the vet was examining it. So that is a big relief! I'll just keep an eye on it for returning myself.

She also got the first of a round of three injections while Brie got her second injection. It was actually good to get them both done as now I know it is Rosie and not the vet who is responsible for her screaming! Brie only wriggled a little when she got her injection, Rosie I think almost brought the ceiling down. And then scurried into Jon's arms and glared at the vet while eating a special poo she'd dropped!

I've had some reassurance from another GL member on frequent injections so I'm a lot more relaxed now :)

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:13 am


I'm happy that the vet appointment went well for Rosie and Brie! They are such lovely girls. :)

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Trick

Post   » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:28 pm


Does anyone have experience on heart pigs gaining weight?

Rosie has put on weight recently, from her normal and what I call healthy weight of 2lb 12-13oz (when not troubled by cysts) to a hefty 3lb+.

She seems to be laying around asleep more often than usual though she is still just as excited about veggie and floor time as ever. Food has not changed, the girls get about a cup of veg a day each, unlimited hay and 1/8th of a cup of Cavy Cuisine.

She seems a little more grumpy but not in the same way she is when her ovarian cysts are being troublesome. It's more like she's just sleepy and as she gets a bit narky when she's tired she's a bit of a gentle grump at the moment. She is not displaying heat problems that I can see, no rumbling or swaying or mounting etc, and her nipples look fine.


I had to give her infacol the first time in a long time the other day for gas, and I am wondering if all this is linked to her being a heart pig?

Could it be that she is needing a higher dose of one of her meds? She gets 1.25mg of Fortekor (Lotensin) twice a day (half of a 2.5mg tablet) and she gets 0.5ml of Furosemide (Lasix) twice a day.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:31 pm


Yes, almost all of my heart pigs gain weight once they're on lotensin. Generally, they lose weight before being on heart meds.

The only thing you have to watch for is that the weight isn't from fluid. Generally you can tell, because they feel bony around the shoulders but round in the belly.

If she's quieter, then I wouldn't increase the lotensin. She should really be more lively. You might see how she does if you reduce the dose ever so slightly to 1mg twice daily.

I'm not sure how many mgs are in your dose of 0.5ml of lasix. Does she have fluid on her lungs (or elsewhere) shown on xray?

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Trick

Post   » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:10 pm


Thanks Mum. Her x-rays didn't show any fluid in her lungs or around her heart, if I remember correctly her heart didn't even look enlarged. All the x-ray really showed was how incredibly full of gas she was. She was eventually prescribed her meds after much begging when she finally got rushed in in an emergency appointment struggling to breathe and they found she had a heart murmur.

She's been on her meds steadily for almost a year now with absolutely splendid results which is why I was hesitant at first to think it this recent change might be down to her meds, but I can't think what else it would be and it seems wise to at least try and rule it out first. I'm wondering whether she has either gained weight naturally (she has just turned 2 years old last month) and the medicine is no longer adequate, or what really.

The lasix is at a concentration of 40mg/5ml - so that's 4mg in the 0.5ml that she gets twice daily. She was initially on 0.75ml twice daily to be reduced as far as possible in due time. 0.5ml is the lowest she could manage without adverse symptoms. I'm trying to remember but I think when we tried lowering it she became fatigued, a loss of energy.

I shall try lowering the lotensin dose to 1mg, it's a little tricky with those tablets but I'm sure we can come up with a reliable way! Do you think increasing the lasix temporarily would be a good idea to see if it makes a difference?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:25 pm


She's been on her meds steadily for almost a year now with absolutely splendid results
Ah, sorry - I didn't realize she'd been on the meds so long. If she's gained weight since starting, then her dosage needs to be increased accordingly.

If there was no fluid seen on xray, why was the lasix prescribed? I do have some pigs who hoot badly without lasix - but there pigs are rare. I don't like to have pigs on lasix longer than necessary, even there are one or two who must be on it for life.

However, it is also true that some pigs seem to do poorly without lasix and lose weight - even if no fluid is seen on xray. I have a pig like that here that I have to keep on a minimum dose of lasix (which is 2mg/ml twice daily per kg).

So much of the dosing of heart meds is really trial and error.

Based on what you've said I would NOT decrease the lotensin, but actually increase it according to her weight gain. I'd try and leave the lasix as is for a while. If the lotensin is doing its job, you can generally do with less lasix. Also, note that some pigs do much better with Vetmedin (Pimobendan) added in to their other heart meds.

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Trick

Post   » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:49 pm


The lasix was given as when we went in for the emergency visit with her struggling to breathe they heard fluid in her lungs through the stethescope (I forgot to mention that). That was a few weeks after the x-ray that had shown nothing, her initial symptoms were lethargy, hooting and very deep sleeping. We did try taking her off it and lowering the dose but she lost all energy very quickly when we tried. So she's been on the lasix ever since at that dose that was the lowest we ever got her to.

I'll leave the lasix as it is if for now then but if we get her better again I'll try decreasing it slowly again to check if she is still dependent on it.

Is the recommended dose for lotensin 1mg per kg? She's around 1.4kg now compared to 1.2kg before, a small difference in the dose but pretty significant for such a small animal I would guess.

With regard to whether her weight gain could be fluid, I'm struggling to tell. With any of the other girls it would be easy but Rosie has always been pear shaped, she holds all her weigh around her stomach and rear end and I can usually always feel her shoulders pretty easily. If it is fluid, is there a way to a) tell without an x-ray/ultrasound, b) treat her for this?

I do think, just from seeing her and holding her every day, that she is at an uncomfortable weight now. She doesn't seem happy.

Apologies for all the questions Mum, I would have asked the vet we saw today with another pig but he wouldn't have had a clue!

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:36 pm


You do need to increase her dose to account for weight gain. And, yes, I've had an animal who's weight gain was due to fluid, but it wasn't shown until necropsy. Unfortunately, as I said, dosages with heart meds seem to be an inexact science.

All you can do is play around and see what works for you. It does sound as if you're very in tune with what works for her, so I would gently tinker with the doses and see if you can work something out. And remember to consider Pimobendan while you're doing this (I don't use it, but I would definitely consider it if warranted).

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:21 am


Just to second what Mum is saying-mine was gaining weight and having other problems but did not show heart problems on x-ray when I put her on the Lotinsen. She did well for awhile but eventually started a decline again so she went on Lasix and Pimobendan (Vetmedin). Since adding the Vetmedin she has done beautifully.

She weighs between 2.6/2.8 lbs and gets 1ml Lotinsen twice a day. She also gets 0.3125 ml Lasix once a day and 1/4 of a 1.25mg Vetmedin twice a day.

It is hard when trying to figure out what dosages are best at any given time. Good luck.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:16 am


Not sure if you have read this -- Josephine's Reference Forum page:

Pimobendan (Vetmedin) use in heart disease/Cardiac drugs

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Trick

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 am


Thank you very much everyone :)

I think I am going to make an appointment with our far away cavy savvy vet and take Rosie to see him. I would like her to be examined thoroughly and I want to try out Vetmedin to see if it helps her. I think it might be what she needs and it is worth a try. I can get him to prescribe it far more easily than the local vets. I also hope he will be able to tell us what her weight gain is comprised of, fluid or not.

Hopefully he can help us sort out how to measure out the Fortekor more accurately as well. I think in the meantime I will give her a little simethicone now and then as she is occasionally making noises and I don't want her to get filled with gas again.

Thank you for all the information, I feel much more sure of myself going to see good vet when I am primed with all this information, which I can print out for good measure.

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jacktheguineapig

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:56 am


you should make a smaller cage for her and get a vet check make shore (spell it wrong lost my menory) her food and water are close so she doesnt have to walk on the leg

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:18 am


jacktheguineapig, you probably won't want to post advice in the medical forum until you've been here a little longer.

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Trick

Post   » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:17 pm


Looking for poo experts this time ;)

Rosie had a poo this evening when out for her meds (could have been a special poo, she just drops them onto Jon and expects him to pass them to her) which had an air bubble in it.

It was so weird, an air bubble making up one end of the poo, the bubble was all filmy like and it could be pushed but didn't burst. It went down after a while.

Her next (special) poo was fine, she did fart a bit when the first bubbly one came out.

So I'm thinking it was gas, I gave her some simethicone to help out with that.

I was just wondering how normal that was and if it indicated a serious gas problem as opposed to a more normal one?

She's just under 3lb now by half an ounce, still too heavy by a fair amount but better at least. She's still going to the good vet, I was just interested if this weird bubble poo was significant.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:21 pm


If it's just the one I probably wouldn't worry about it but still keep an eye out. Lady Bug had these kinds of poos a few times while we sere still going through the diagnostic phase of finding out what was wrong. She did have a large amount of gas but certainly more than one poo like that.

I'd just keep an eye on her.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:50 pm


The bubble may have been encased mucus?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:54 pm


Ditto Bugs Mom and Lynx. We've seen that with ours, too, and as long as it's an isolated case IME it doesn't indicate a serious problem (yet, anyway).

If she farted, that's good. For her anyway, maybe not for Jon. ;-)

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Trick

Post   » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:31 am


Thanks for the info :) I never imagined guinea pig ownership would entail these kind of conversations!

I'll keep an eye on her as ever, hopefully Jon will be able to get through to Mr. Good Vet tomorrow.

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