I wonder why it isnt done more often over heart sticks. I'm not so sure Dr R even does heart sticks.
Good point Holly. How much an animal struggles with the iso will vary. None of them like it but some wont struggle as much depending on how strong or weak. I have seen some go absolutely nuts while others look agitated but is quickly overtaken by the gas. It's hard to tell how they would react... which is why I suggest using an IM sedative. The reaction is pretty predictable; getting poked in the muscle will hurt, but it comes annd goes quickly.
It is nice to be able to say goodbye... if the euthasol went IV or into the heart, the "twillight period" will take just a few seconds. Usually by the time the vet is done injecting the solution, the pet is gone.
When I went into the treatment room and saw the box, while holding Nevy to my chest, I just froze.
- Cindy in MI
- Supporter in '05
I am thinking that an oral sedative would make the animal loopy enough that an IM injection (and the whole experience), although quick, would still be less traumatic and painful. Plus the oral sedative would have the overall benefit of lessening the animal's overall anxiety, especially when the animal has to be taken from familiar surroundings (home) in a car (which can be stressful in itself to some animals) to the unfamiliar (vet clinic) for the whole process.Cindy: Oral sedatives normally wont be able to put an animal down all the way so they would still feel the poke of an IM injection, therefore, not very useful.
I do not know what is used for human pre-op meds, but I do know firsthand that even though they don't knock you out, some of them are good enough that they make it such that you don't care what is done to you before you are actually put under. There is a lot to be said about being made very loopy. That would be the effect I would be looking for with an oral sedative for my animals.
Maybe it wouldn't be that useful in getting them under but if there is any benefit in making it any easier for the animal, I don't see where it could hurt. As I posted earlier, the oral sedative that was given to my hammie was enough to get her to agonal breathing before they gave her the euth solution. She was already gone for all practical purposes, but the final stick just ensured that her heart was stopped.
Also, I've had two cats receive the IP injection. One of them winced and squirmed momentarily while the other didn't seem to be very bothered, although she was much sicker at the time. It does take a little bit for them to fade away but it does give you a few minutes to pet them and talk to them while they are going. It was a gentle and gradual process. I liked that I could pet them and talk to them so that it felt like I was able to love on them and comfort them along the way, that I was with them and they knew they weren't alone.
Cindy: I hear you. Any drug is better than no drug. It's probably not practiced regularly because of the cost. But cost-smost! Theres more important things at hand. I believe the drug they use to induce people is propofol, which I believe can only be given IV. Telazol (which is a tiletamine and zolazepam combo), which can be given IM or IV, also has an antianxiety component (tiletamine) to it. I think propofol is prefered as an anesthetic drug over something like telazol (or any other sedative) because of how fast it leaves the body. Plus animals that are waking from telazol look pretty unhappy and miserable; though this doesnt matter for our discussion.
- Cindy in MI
- Supporter in '05
I agree with your statement 1000%.But cost-smost!
I will do whatever I can to make it as easy, painless and anxiety-free as I can for my beloved animals. I may not be able to save them or fix them but I can try to help their end be as comfortable and peaceful as possible.
And after spending hundreds or even into the thousands of dollars for diagnosis and treatment, a few more dollars isn't going to make a financial difference to me but it may make a difference to the animal.
- It started with Louie...
- Supporter in '13
Also, regarding gas and the "box" I was assuming most vets that used that method would start with the box and then switch to the mask after the animal is asleep.
- I GAVE, dammit!
At the moment, if I have to have an animal pts - and it's not a Monday or Tuesday - I don't have one close to me, so it would be good to find one nearer to me than Long Beach.
BTW: I work in the South Bay. They have FABULOUS cat/dog vets, if you ever needed one and want to drive all the way to the beach ;)
I see what you mean now, when you talk about agonal breathing. It's kind of creepy to watch, but helped that the vet was there to tell me what was going on.
With Quilt not doing fantastic, I know I will be facing this issue (hopefully not soon, but you never know). My overriding concern was how it was to be done. I contacted a few people here on GL and they explained how it should be done. When I discussed it with Quilt's doctor, her methods match those proposed by the GL people I talked with.
I'm posting this in hopes that it will also help others facing this. I told her that I didn't want him to be scared or nervous during that last car ride. She gave me some "ace" (I guess it's the same thing I have for my horse) for calming. When we get there, he'll be sedated just as they do prepping for surgery. Once he's "out", the mask goes on and it's done. She said that she doesn't like to do the mask first as many pigs are terrified of it.
That agonal breathing sounds like what hospice told us to expect from both my mom and dad right before they passed.
It's such a huge help to know what to expect.
All night and all day I keep picturing him trying to move around in the dome before he fell asleep. I was sad thinking he might be uncomfortable but before I knew it, he was out.
I've seen hamsters panic and struggle in an iso box, turned on full blast, for over 5 minutes.
Sorry for your loss.