Very puzzled

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pinta

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:45 am


Her teeth themselves are perfect. the roots are just beginning to show signs of "getting long". I'm assuming
that is the same as a human getting "long in the tooth"?


I take it to mean she is developing elongated roots. As the roots elongate, it will be more and more painful for her to chew. Lack of chewing will result in malocclusion. Read up on elongated roots - there's a thread in reference worth reading.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:02 am


Hi Pinta

I asked her doctor what the long roots meant and she compared them to a horse, Since I don't know much about horses it didn't mean a lot to me. She did say it was just another thing to watch as there might be problems later.

I think for Lady Bug's comfort and time constraints she was lightly sedated for all the procedures. They got to watch her eat when she came out of the doping up. She went for the hay like a champ. Poor baby was hungry after all that time.

It was amazing to watch the "patients" who came in. A lot of dogs who had had cancer surgery and Chemo. One rooster with bad feet and a hairless hamster. Quite a place.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:39 pm


I need some further help here please. Lady Bug seems to have a lot of gas all the time. I've tried the OTC baby gas stuff as well as the vibrating pillow but they don't seem to be having much effect. I know at one point awhile back I found a thread from Rshevin that was helpful but can't find it now. Maybe I'm just too tired at this point!

I've tried a search for gas and motility drugs but am not really finding out what I need to know. Lady Bug has had three doses, about two weeks ago of Cisapride but frankly, given it's history, it scare me to death.

Can someone point me in the right direction for a motility drug that is not as dangerous?

Thank you.

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:15 pm


Ah yes, that was my Piggy with the gas problems. He still has them sometimes. I've found the best way to manage his gas is with diet. For whatever reason he can't have bell peppers. It took me a while to figure that out since they're so commonly fed. Exercise is important as is eating a lot of grassy hay. I also give him a slug of simethicone (the baby stuff) if I even suspect he might be gassy. Usually his poops will change and a single dose goes a long way towards preventing things getting worse. Just make sure he tolerates the simethicone well. Many people on GL have pigs that don't but it's a lifesaver for Piggy.

Reglan is your other motility option. I was really scared of cisapride for a while but it does work. The concern with the drug was for people with existing heart conditions. I'll see if I can find Piggy's thread and link it to you. GL gave me a lot of good suggestions.

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:18 pm


Here's Piggy's thread if you'd like to look over it again.
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32953

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:26 pm


Thank you mucho Rshevin. that's what I was looking for.

I have a quick question. Have any of you out there ever heard of Metacam affecting kidneys with long time use? I don't remember reading this on here but then the memory is not what it was either.

Someone not connected with GL just told me that. Not sure I believe it though. Thanks.

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:29 pm


I've heard of other long term NSAIDS (ibuprofen specifically) affecting the kidneys. They are removed from the body via the kidneys as opposed to something like Tylenol that's removed mostly by breaking down in the liver.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:34 pm


Our vet says Metacam is excreted through the kidneys. She is cautious in assessing the total kidney load (my phrase, not hers) in evaluating medications, procedures, etc.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:45 pm


How interesting. So what is one supposed to do? I guess just monitor the kidneys every so often.

Yesterday's doctor put Lady Bug on Meloxicam (1.5mg/ml). Give 0.2ml by mouth twice a day for up to 7 days. This was done with her arthritis in mind. Does this sound like too much?

The idea was to see if it worked or not.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:00 pm


That's closer to an analgesic dose (post-op, etc.) than a long-term arthritis dose in my opinion. It sounds high to me for an arthritis dose, but I see the point in evaluating if it works or not. I wouldn't give her that much for more than 5 or 7 days, though. Actually, I'd give her 0.2 mL of the 1.5 mg/mL suspension once a day to start with, and see if her mobility and overall demeanor change.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:08 pm


Thank you Talishan. Your suggestion sounds like a good one. If it does work then her local vet will refill the prescription so I can keep her feeling a little more "frisky".

She goes back in 3 months for another ultra-sound to keep an eye on the bright spot on her one adrenal gland that is swollen. Needless to say, she'll go back to U C Davis at that time. I've fallen in love with their equipment.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:06 pm


I have two pigs who get a daily dose of 0.15 per day (sometimes it's 0.2ccs) - both pigs have arthritis.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:28 pm


Thank you all of you for the information. I have decided to go with Mum's dosage. She seemed to have a little better movement yesterday but it will take some time to tell how much as it's hotter than bloody blue blazes here right now. We're running in the low 100's and Lady Bug is always less active in the heat. (Me too, for that matter!).

A thought I found amusing to me-we're both taking Nasiads for out arthritis. Too old ladies here.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:41 pm


Rather than hijack someone else's thread I though I'd bump this one up.

I have a question for you Talishan. I've stopped posting everytime Lady Bug has one of her episodes as they are becoming farther apart but more severe when they do occur.

Her last was two weeks ago and lasted a full 7 days and scared me to death. I thought I was going to lose her. She had lots of gas which the doctor was able to expel and she got rid of the remainder on her own in the next couple of days. She was eating less, peeing and pooping appriproate to the amount she was taking in-not much.

My question was, your piggy that developed stasis and torsion-what, if anything ever showed on x-rays? Other than eating less and becoming slower what did you observe?

I'm at my wits end with LB. Her x-rays show a tremendous amount of gas but that's all. Her heart is fine, and nothing looks out of place on X-rays or ultrasounds. I don't know where to go at this point. I'd sure like to do something pro-active. Her diet is always the same and she gets KM's hay and pellets so I know the quality is there.

One strange thing this last time, as she stopped eating she actually gained over 4 ounces.

Is there anything you can tell me that will help my little one? Thank you.

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amy m guinea

Post   » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:42 pm


Could this weight gain be water? From heart issues? I know her heart looks fine on xray and ultrasound, just came to mind. I wish you all the best, I am not an expert by any means, this just popped out at me.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:02 am


She dropped back to her normal weight as she got better. All the tests show her heart occupying the 60% or less of the thoratic cavity.

I'm tempted to say heart too, but the tests just don't substantiate it.

I just wish I knew what was going on.

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amy m guinea

Post   » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:26 am


What else could cause water retention? Kidney issues? I wish you all the best in finding out what is wrong.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:37 pm


It wasn't water (I don't think) with ours, though Amy, that's a good idea.

Ours would gain weight too. She would defecate a little less, and eat a little less, yet gain weight. I swear the gas seemed to weigh something, which is ridiculous but it seemed to.

For ours, we:

1. Were really, really, really careful with vegetables. Absolutely no gas producers (kale, broccoli, bell pepper). Fortunately she would eat the Oxbow GNC-50 tablets, so as her vegetable intake decreased, I didn't worry too much about C.

2. Gave her smaller pieces of leaf lettuces and fruits (some) more frequently rather than larger pieces only once or twice a day. Romaine even caused her problems sometimes. We pretty much stuck to redleaf and greenleaf.

3. Watched her water and pellet intake very carefully. If she slacked off, even a little (she was always our biggest drinker, going through close to 32 oz. some days), we knew to watch for a potential episode.

4. Tried to get her to move around. Not chase her or scare her, but we have a big 4x4 supplemental run area in the den and we'd put her out there.

5. Pick her up. Weigh her. Check her nails. Check her nipples. Don't palpate or massage her, necessarily, but just gently handle her. Just the gentle manipulation of being handled sometimes helped a little.

6. We have one of these:

Massaging neck pillow

It didn't seem to help ours much, but it may help yours.

7. Reglan may help. A motility agent will help push the gas through along with the food. Simethicone did zip. Nada, nothing.

8. Give her a cardboard toilet paper roll, cut lengthwise and with the sharp corners clipped off. They will sometimes chew on those and eat them, eat a lot of it. For some reason eating the paper that doesn't actually get digested sometimes seems to help.

Ours had tremendous black gas on x-ray and the vets didn't even react. No talk of tapping it or anything. Not that I'd necessarily have gone for that anyway, but they didn't take it as seriously as it was.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:47 pm


Thank you for getting back to me Talishan. In my avatar my little one is actually sitting on one of those pillows being vibrated!

I'm beginning to suspect doctors don't react to all the gas on x-rays and ultrasounds because they really don't know what to do about it. The standard answer to me is "it's normal". I find that hard to believe when they stop eating and start crashing the way mine just did.

Reglan has the same effect on mine-nada.

Why did your little one go into Stasis and Torsion? What are the signs to look for that might be different from LB's "normal" episodes?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:49 pm


One more thought: if you're comfortable doing so (and she is too, don't freak her), take her out for a car ride. Sometimes the vibration alone from the car helps.

Reglan isn't the nada -- simethicone was. Reglan may help LB.

I suspect you're right; the vets don't know what to do about it. Saying "it's normal", though, isn't right.

There, unfortunately, aren't any signs (that I know of) other than a "normal" episode. A "normal" episode that gets just that little bit much worse could be the one that goes into stasis. That's the problem. There's just no way to tell.

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