Chronic Bloating

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Shirl123

Post   » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:04 am


Milly has been bloated this time for 3 weeks now, and nothing we have tried has had any success in removing, or even reducing by any extent, the bloat. This hay only diet is just a one off, 48 hour trial, to try and get out of her system anything that my be irritating her insides. I'm keeping up to metoclopramide and simethicone, and I will have one more try this evening with mineral oil, and several sessions on the massage cushion.

The probiotic the vet gave me also has vitamins A, C & E, which hopfully will help give her some of what is missing without her veggies.

The only acidophilus capsules I have been able to find are Acidophilus Plus. The packet states that the capsules are a "Non-dairy source of L.acidophilus, L.casei casei & L.casei rhamnosus". Does anyone know if these are safe for pigs, or do I need to find plain acidophilus capsules?

I haven't got any Critical Care yet, but I do have a packet of Science Recovery. Will this do for the time being, to give with the acidophilus?

maremma

Post   » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:07 pm


When Sweetpea is really having a rough time I have given her three doses of mineral oil in a day. Be sure to syringe pedialite into her wait at least half and hour to an hour and give her a dose. Repeat in 8 hours and then 8 hours again. Sweetpea has had to have at least two doses a day since she began bloating or we are in serious trouble. Be absolutely sure she gets the fluids into her before giving her the oil.

Sweetpea has a slightly irregular shaped heart and so we are afraid ot give her reglan but if your babies heart is okay it may well help keep her regular but take some time on it for it to work well.

I can't tell you if the acidophilus plus can be used or not. Hopefully someone can tell us soon. Is she still eating the probiotic from the vet for you? That is safe for her.

I also do not know about science recovery but I do know you can put acidophilus on the parsely that has been wetted and it will stick for her to eat it that way. Some of my babies will eat it this way. Perhaps she will too.

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Shirl123

Post   » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:03 pm


Maremma, thanks very much for all your advice. Milly's bloating is going down today, now I have cut out everything apart from hay. I did find some dandelions, so she has had a few leaves, but nothing else. She is still taking the probiotic from the vet. I checked the ingredients in this, and it says it has electrolytes, so I don't think she will need pedialite while she is taking this.

The vet hasn't found any heart problems with Milly, and just told me to phone up when I need metoclopramide for her, so he obviously doesn't see a problem with longer term use.

I will keep her off the veggies again tomorrow, and then start to re-introduce pellets and small portions of veggies. I will try Talishan's advice of little and more frequently to see if this helps. I'll only indroduce one to two types of veggies ever few days so if she starts bloating again, I'm hoping I may be able to work out what has started it up again.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:45 pm


Glad to hear she is doing just a little bit better. The process of elimination method you are following is just about the only way I can think of to find out if there is a trigger for her, and if so, what it is.

Just to note: Pedialyte is not suggested for electrolyte balance, necessarily. Many guinea pigs love the taste and will drink it readily when they're not drinking water, or not enough water. We use it for hydration more than electrolyte balance.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:48 pm


I'll only indroduce one to two types of veggies [over a] few days...

Yes, go very slowly. It may take a few days to show a problem. You want to identify the specific veg that is causing it. Avoid fruits.

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Shirl123

Post   » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:56 am


Thanks for your advice. Milly's bloating has reduced quite a bit this morning, although she still has gas in her. I'll try pedialyte today, to try and get as much fluid into her as I can, to see if that helps.

maremma

Post   » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:05 pm


Is Milly still on the reglan? I think I misunderstood. I thought you had stopped it and she was no longer on it.

My experience with reglan is limited to my first boy on it who was in actual stasis and my BigBilly who was not in actual stasis but needs the extra help to keep food moving because his intestines are being pushed over to one side. With both of them I noticed more improvement once they were on it several days.

It helped right away for BigBilly to get more poops coming out but it took a few day before he became regular. I wish I could put Sweetpea on it after seeing the vast improvement in Big Billy. That and the simethicone sure helped him toot and poop all the gas out of him.

How is Milly doing now? Is she eating pellets and hay now or is she still restricted to only hay?

Is she still being given the probiotic every day? I wouldn't stop that even if you don't think it is helping. With all she is going through she needs the extra support to her gut flora.

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Shirl123

Post   » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:03 pm


Milly is still on the metoclopramide, but I am reducing the dose so that I can stop it over the next few days. (We have to have tablets crushed in water in the UK, we don't have reglan). Sorry if I confused you. It definately helps her, as without it, she gets much bigger.

I kept her to the hay-only diet for just over 48 hours. There was a big improvement after about 18 hours, but then she started to pass blood in her wee, and bloated up a bit again, but not as much as before.

She is now back on pellets, and I'm giving her smallish portions of veggies three times a day. So far there dosen't seem to be a reaction to veggies that I've given her.

She now has a bladder problem on top of the bloat. (It could be that the bladder problem has been making the bloat worse). Her bladder is very painfull, poor little thing. The vet did an ultrasound today; there is no sign of stones, but the bladder walls are much thicker than they should be. So she is now on antibiotics as well, while the vet checks a urine sample for crystals.

I'm only giving Milly one dose of simethicone a day now, but I will keep Milly on the probiotic for some time. Fortunately, she loves it, and will take as much as I give her. The other two pigs almost pull the syringe out of her mouth! She didn't think much of the UK version of pedialyte, though. I've bought another flavour to try on her later, as I'm hoping it will help to get as much fluid into her as I can.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:26 pm


What AB were you given for the bladder problem?

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Shirl123

Post   » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:37 pm


Milly is on Baytril. The bottle says "Oral Suspension 2.5%", the doseage is 0.2ml twice a day. She went off her food a bit when she was on Baytril a few years ago, but she wasn't on probiotics then, which she is now. She's getting her probiotics an hour or so after the AB, and seems OK so far. The vet hasn't got back to me yet about the urine sample. I will phone him tomorrow, if I don't hear from him first.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:50 pm


She may do better on bactrim - and this is more commonly prescribed for bladder issues.

I wouldn't put a pig back on baytril who had previously shown signs of intolerance.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:59 pm


Ditto Mum. Watch carefully for intolerance. In my experience (I am not a vet), the organisms most often involved in bladder issues respond readily to Bactrim.

maremma

Post   » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:25 am


How is she doing today? Joey just had a UTI. I was fortunate he cleared withing a few days of bactrum and cranberry juice treatment.

Are you giving her cranberries? If she won't eat them you can put whole cranberries in a food chooper with some plain water and mix the daylights out of it. You can then either put the very finey crushed cranberries into a feeding syringe ot get them into her or if you managed ot get juice suck it up a drinking one and get the juice into her that way.

Cranberries coat the urinary system and help prevent bacteria from sticking to the urinary tract walls so the antibiotics have less bacteria to kill off and can work more quickly. It also aids in pain relief because of the coating.

Another plus is it's ability to help break down sludge to slow or prevent stone growth. Some have reported literal stones being broken down far enough it could pass without surgery but I have no personal experience with that aspect.

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Shirl123

Post   » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:02 pm


Well, you were right about the Baytril. Milly has swollen up like a balloon, with more air than before. The Baytril is in the bin, Milly has gone back to the vet.

She was right off her food this morning, with only tiny poops coming out. I tied the mineral oil and the massage cushion last night, but it didn't have any effect. The vet has kept Milly in again. He's going to try and get her insides moving overnight, so we should be able to collect her tomorrow. I think the AB he said he was going to put her on now was Septrin, as she had that when she was spayed, so hopefully she will be OK on that.

There is no sign of blood in her wee now, and the urine sample showed no crystals. She doesn't normally have to have ABs for UTIs. I normally treat her with barley water, and if it doesn't clear within 2 days, I also give her 100% cranberry juice, with a liitle water added and this has always worked before.

I am wondering if she may have Interstitial Cystitis. I mentioned it to the vet, and he said it is possible. I read somewhere that with Interstitial Cystitis, it's thought that cranberry juice may actually cause more irritation to the bladder, so I have stopped that for the time being. I have been trying to find the Chinese herbal medicine, Shilintong, but I haven't been able to find it on the net in the UK. I've asked a few Chinese Herbalists, and they have similar products, but I daren't risk them, as I don't know if they're safe for Milly. I may have to order Shilintong from the US.

capybara
Supporter in '13

Post   » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:23 pm


If you're still having trouble finding shilintong and want to try a sample, I have a small amount left over from when we were trying to help Peppi with his stones that I could send you. Contact me through the mailer if you're interested.

maremma

Post   » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:41 pm


Oh no the poor little baby! Is the vet taking the air off of her with a needle or a tube down her throat under anesthesia or just with higher doses of the reglan? (I personally chose the tube down the throat under anesthesia for Sweetpea because of the risk of septicemia with the needle procedure was more than I could cope with. )

How long are you sitting her on the massager after you give her mineral oil? Do you do it once or several times a day? One round doesn't usually help Sweetpea much either. Generally I have to push fluids, give the .3 mls of oil sit her on the massager for at least 20 minutes, three times a day and she only begins to do better the following day. If she is still as deflated as she should be we do it again the next day. Sweetpea of course gets a lot of floor time along with this routine though whereas Milly can't.

If the reglan was helping to at least keep her from bloating worse I do not understand why she is being taken off of it? The more air in her the higher the risk for necrosis etc. Will a different med be tried instead?

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Shirl123

Post   » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:26 pm


I'm not entirely sure what the vet will do this time, but he did get her bloating down last time she was kept in. I think he will use either reglan or something very similar, as he thinks the problem is that her insides have slowed up, and are not moving everything down properly.

Milly has had air taken off by a tube before, by the first vet I took her to. She came around just before the end, but was so good about having a tube down her throat, that if it is necessary again, hopefully it could be done without an anesthesia.

I have been giving Milly fluids, then the mineral oil, waiting 20 mins or so, and then putting her on the massage cushion for at least 30 mins. I only gave her one lot of mineral oil, but put her on the cushion once last night, and twice today before she went to the vet. The cushion does seem to help, as I can feel her insides contracting.

I think the Milly will be staying on the reglan until her air has gone, it's just the Baytril that he is changing. He wants to give her a full course of ABs, to make sure any infection has gone.

I hate having to leave her at the vets. I just hope she's OK to come home tomorrow.

Capybara, thank you for the offer of the Shilintong. I'll be in touch once Milly is safely home.

maremma

Post   » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:40 am


I am so sorry she has to stay at the vets. I know I too would be out of my mind with worry.

Did he switch her antibiotics or is he trying to force her to stay on the baytril evne though it is creating so much more trouble for her? I don't understand that as wise at all.

If she were my girl I would not take her off the reglan at all. If her insides are slowing down I would be very afraid they'll just stop. Also the longer the food that has already been processed stays inside her the higher the risk she will become toxic from it.Her intestines are going to continue to draw the water and toxins out of whatever is in there, good for her or not. The drier the poops get the more chance of total blockage occurring. The toxins will quickly overwhelm her liver and of course that too will kill her.

I know it is a pain to crush the pills and mix them with water but her life depends on it. I had to crush pills and add water for Fonzie too. Just be sure to keep the liquid form you have to make in a well sealed container so you can reshake the daylights out of it before you suck up the next dose into a syringe.

I sure hope your little one is home safe in your arms real soon.

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Shirl123

Post   » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:27 pm


We've got Milly back home from the vets. She's still quite puffed out, but her sides are much softer, and she looks a lot brighter. Every time I've checked her, she has been eating hay, and she's producing normal moist poops, just a bit lighter in colour than normal. She's managed to brake a front bottom incisor, but we just need to keep a watch, to make sure it doesn't cause a problem with her eating.

She's not to be given Baytril again; she is on Septrin, the same ab as after her spay a few months ago, so hopefully she won't react against this. I will continue with the full dose of the metoclopramide until the vet says that it is OK to start reducing it.

I'm going to limit her veggies over the next 24 hours, just giving her the odd taster, to try and help to bloat reduce down further. I'll give her several sessions on the massage cushion as well, as this does seem to help, and we'll see the vet again in a few days.

maremma

Post   » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:52 pm


Oh I am so glad to hear your baby is home safe with you again! I am sure you are releived too!

I have been lucky with my Sweetpea the past two days. She has barely had any belly puffing. I am now being forced to wonder if the dandelion I have given her the past two days has anything to do with it or if it is some strange coincidence.

We finally have dandelions growing here and my babies adore them so of course I went out and picked a pile for them. I have only given a few small leaves for fear it would cause trouble until they become adjusted to having them again but still it is the only thing changed for her.

I just love the look on Sweetpea's face when I walk in the room with dandelions. They can smell them before I even take the paper towel off the top of them! She will be busy about her business then must get a whiff and her head shoots up, her eyes get big and she starts squealing and running to the side of the cage! LOL It is the only thing that can make her squeal. It isn't a regular wheek like when other goodies are coming, it's special just for dandelion leaves! LOL

Did you feed Milly any dandelions and notice any difference in her?

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