Henry - crusty eyes, lethargic

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For all Wonkys & Winkys

Post   » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:50 am

I have never heard of wire for internal stitiches either. I'm not a medical expert on guinea pigs, but I do work with surgeons for humans, and never is wire used on the inside for stitiches.
Is there an op report that was dictated on the spay? Do they dicate reports for animals? After all Henry has been through, (not to mention you,) I can't believe this is all still going on. You have the patience of a saint and your Henry has a very strong will to live. Bless you both.

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Post   » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:55 am

No no no. Not wire. I knew I should have not used that word but I couldn't think of a better word. I just couldn't think of a word worked with "smaller gauge wire". Maybe smaller gauge suture material would have been more appropriate. It's the dissolvable type of stuff. PDF? I can't think of the name. But it's all on the up and up.

Lynx if you want to actually edit that you can go right ahead. I had a feeling it would be misleading, but then I thought "oh they'll know what I'm talking about". So sorry! Don't want to cause more issues.

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Post   » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:57 am

Wow! Something that finally makes some sense for a change! Bless Dr. D., too.

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Post   » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:44 pm

Sounds like what happened to my Sophie. After her second bladder stone surgery one day I felt a wire sticking out of her belly. I forget if my vet said it would eventually dissolve but she cut it down to the skin. Sophie did not cry however when urinating. She didn't seem bothered by it at all.

I think you may need to incorporate the Shilintong into your plan.

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Post   » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:02 pm

PDS. One of Salana's pigs had trouble with it (Suzi, I think). Some pigs can't be sutured with PDS.

I'm wondering if they used too large a gauge, and/or if they feel so thick because they're not dissolving properly.


Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:59 am

Aww the poor little one:( Why in the world would they use such thick sutures on the insides of such a tiny animal? Isn't it only their skin that is thicker and tougher?

I am so sorry they found she has kidney damage. I am making so many links between what is happening to Joey,Dartygirl and Henry and what is going on in my own Urinary tract and insides.

When they are done torturing me with all the new tests I will fill you in on all of that too. If it weren't for the fact that all this is going on in Joey and Darty I would not have even bothered to let them retorture me beleive it or not.I am so fed up with doctors and tests over and over again.

I beleive I am in the twilight zone. I had to go to the gynocologyst this week to rule out actual reproductive problems causing my new and much more painful symptoms. They seem to be "cycling" yet still feel as if they are in my bladder. He actually said I may need a hysterectomy if we DON'T find anything specific in my reproductive organs that can be treated and controlled with hormone treatments!

Imagine my face after just having a vet tell me Darty may needs spayed for a bladder problem. I had to pinch myself to see if I was really awake or having some kind of twilight zone nightmare. LOL I am pretty sure my head spun a full 360 degrees in confusion and disbelief. LOL

The human doctor had a different explanation though. Interstial cystitis is actually somehow affected by our changing hormone levels throughout our cycle. The bladder can become unbearably painful during certain times of our cycles apparently. Also removing the uterus as well as the hormone producing antagonists (ovaries) stops the cycling part of the increased misery and removing the uterus takes some of the pressure off the bladder "gives it more room in there". Well now I really have a lot of research to do anyway. After all maybe that means after Darty and I go through menopause it will be a blessing instead right? (except for that "more room statement") I am praying for any early one for both of us now.

I can say that each time this new symptom comes around I cannot tolerate ANYTHING touching my lower abdomen at all. It kills me to bump into the darn table at work because it lines RIGHT up with my bladder/uterus area and I have to wear VERY lose pants. I rush home from work to get sweat pants on and put a heating pad on my belly! Joey seems comforted by sitting with me on a towel on the heating pad too.

I have a LOT more trouble eating and at times wind up RUNNING to the bathroom to vomit. I don't get much warning that is coming. I pray the guineas don't get that horrible feeling. They can't throw up to feel better:( After a few days it backs off to the normal regular ache in that area and I do much better and am hungry again and food stays in.

Incidently I am very thin and have trouble keeping my weight up where the doctor likes it to be for my age. I can get that few pounds on and then it quickly burns right back off. Looking at Joey makes me think he is in the same boat. It is somehow affecting our metabolism and making our food burn off faster than it used to. Perhaps it is the same for Henry? Sadly Dartygirl has lost 2 ounces now too:( She is down to 2 pound 14 ounces from her normal solid constant 3 pound weight.

Please look into D-mannose for your girl. (It is a purer form of the active "ingredient" in cranberries but without the PH changing acid or the blood sugar changing natural sugars)

I will never take Joey off of it now that I have done so much research and know what I know has happend inside me. It is to protect his kidneys and ureters that I won't take him off. Darty is now in the same boat. She will be taking it daily for the rest of her life too. Given the vet said her bladder was to thick I sadly believe she too may have interstitial cystitis and is just handling it better than Joey can or is not as far along with it as he is:(

From all I have read so far the thickened bladder wall occurs in interstitial cystitis the longer you have it but does not occur in a simple UTI. I may even begin giving it to all of them by the time I done with my research.

There is not only danger of direct kidney damage there in danger of ureter damage. I have a LOT of scar tissue now in my ureters. It has caused stenosis in them. (they are now to narrow) this creates new problems for my kidneys. The urine forming in the kidneys sometimes is greater than the urine that can get through the much narrower ureters and into my bladder fast enough causing the urine to back up into my kidneys. This is an obvious problem for more than one reason.

One being pain that mimics a kidney infection. (I would rather deliver ten babies to give you an idea of how bad a kidney infection hurts if you don't know) I can actually FEEL my kidney is to full. It feels "stretched" beyond its limits.

Two, the risk of an actual kidney infection setting into the kidney again is far greater the longer the urine "sits" in there waiting to get out. The risk of further kidney damage from each infection in them is extremely high. I personally have never had one that I came out unscathed from. They all created further permanant damage.

Three IF the damage that is in the kidney was to the filters and it is causing them to leak blood that makes the patient more suceptible to infections and of course chronic pain. Blood is an irritant. The urinary tract is not "made" to carry blood like veins are and so the insides of it become irritated and inflammed from the caustic blood constantly running through it. Obviously it is far easier for bacteria to get a firm hold on inflammed tissues than it is on smooth healthy tissue.

Four, interstitial cystitis is chronic inflammation of the bladder. That in itself puts the bladder at higher risk of the bacterial infections that can move up into the ureters and kidneys setting back in and starting the whole cycle of destruction over again.

Please do research for yourself on way to protect your little ones kidneys and ureters. I wouldn't wish my kidney issues on my worst enemy much less a precious innocent guinea pig.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:03 am

Right, that's what Dr. D is thinking. So we might just go in and take them out. She said nothing showed any tissue problems there or bad reactions going on, they're just being stubborn. She said to call in 2 weeks if they haven't gone away. But honestly, they haven't gone away in 2 months so I don't think they're going anywhere.

I'd like to just get 'em out and see if that helps her.

Edit: well I would have had no way to know anything about her previous kidney problem and I never would have thought about kidneys so I didn't think to get information about something that wasn't an issue, as far as we all knew. But. There is no current active disease in the kidney, but it's possible that her previous infection was due to this whole disaster. But not much I can do about past problems. I'm trying to fix what I now know.

I'm doing Metacam now, and will buy the Shilintong today. Hopefully this combined with getting the sutures out will calm things down a bit.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:17 am

Oh and I will ask my vet about the D-mannose, but I don't know of a lot of people who use it other than you. I'd like to get some more input before I start putting Henry all on this stuff.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:36 am

Well, for what it's worth, here is the response I got on the subject when I posted about it last year.

Maybe Lynx can weigh in on this again. I can't find references to D-Mannose in too many other places on GL.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:01 pm

Thanks, the link doesn't say too much, but yeah sugars aren't great I guess. Henry's bleeding again today, the Shilintong has been ordered. So I'll stick with Metacam until it arrives. (Can I use Metacam WITH Shilintong or is it one or the other?) I hope the bleeding clears up though, it has in the past. Poor girl, she's so normal otherwise. What a pain this must be for her. Jeez.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:06 pm

My guess is that you can use them together. One is an NSAID; the other is...whatever it is (herbal supplement). I'm sure if I'm wrong, someone will come along shortly to correct me.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:25 pm

Sorry I have no more to add. It still does seem like for an herbivore like a guinea pig, sugar is not the best way to go.


Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:18 pm

D-mannose is not a sugar, sugar like you are imagining. It is a simple sugar. It is the UTI fighting ingredient in cranberries (ALL food breaks down into blood sugar to be carried through the blood stream and used for energy but fruit breaks down into a higher blood sugar count than veggies, pellets, hay etc)

Because it is a simple sugar it is so quickly metabolized and excreted in the urine it does not affect the pancreas and cause an insulin reaction like a complex sugar would. The blood sugar levels remain the same making it far safer than the complex sugars in cranberries themselves.

Cranberries change the PH of urine and cause it to be more acidic. This can even be a good thing in a guinea pig that has a normal bladder since some bladder infections can actually cause stones and the acidic nature of their urine while eating them daily makes stone formation much harder.

In a guinea pig that has interstial cystitis this is a bad thing because the bladder wall itself is not normal and the acidic urine can cause further pain and inflammation.

D-mannose just cuts out the less desired parts of eating cranberries every day and only keeping the active ingredient instead to ward off bacteria sticking to the urinary tract walls.

I found it mentioned here when I first looked up chronic UTI's but couldn't find much else her on it and so had to do a pile of my own research and then take it to the vet.

Bactrim didn't clear it , baytril didn't do it but the D-mannose did. We are finally at least down to only the intersitial cystitis to deal with.

Of course I just said to please do research for yourslef to try to find ways to protect her kidneys. The fact that she already has damage broke my heart for her. Perhaps there are other ways that you would prefer.

At this point in time I only had three options. The cranberries were no longer one of them once we were sure he had the interstitial cystitis.

One, the every other or every third day of bactrim. I did not feel comfortable with that. I want bactrim left in the arsenal if he ever needs it for something else and fear his body will become to used to it and then it will not be effective for him when he gets a URI or something. Given Henry's history I am thinking that is not an option for her either?

Two was to do nothing but metacam and shillintong and pray another bacterial infection does not set in. After the long horrible antibiotics ordeal that failed miserably anyway and seeing Joey suffering so badly I couldn't in good conscience choose this option for Joey. Perhaps this could be an option with very frequent urine cultures to check if there is bacteria in the urine though for Henry?

Three was to go ahead and give him the D-mannose but in much smaller doses and a modified schedule. He gets 1/8 of a child's dose one time daily as a maintanance dose. I may decrease this to every other or every third day shortly since he is doing better and that would have been the course for antibiotics to prevent infections. He got it twice day while he had the active bacterial infection.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:28 pm

I did find quite a few blurbs on the web today about D-Mannose for use in dogs, and particularly cats who have recurring UTI's. The information states that D-Mannose isn't metabolized, so it doesn't affect blood sugars (supposedly even in Diabetics). Also apparently doesn't mess up gut flora.


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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:36 pm

Interesting indeed. If you find some reputable links, you might want to post them. We can ask Josephine if she's at all familiar with it.

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Post   » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:42 pm

I'll go back to some of those websites tomorrow and pick out the ones that seemed most credible (you have to weed through a lot of ads/sites selling products containing D-Mannose). I'd like to get Josephine's take on it, too.


Post   » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:39 pm

It seems a lot of pigs have trouble with sutures. One of mine who rejected her sutures and a pin in a broken leg was also violently allergic to mites. Makes me wonder if pigs that reject sutures have other sensitivities casuing complications.

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Post   » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:46 pm

Thanks for everyones input, information, and link finding. Right now I'm going to stick with Dr. D's plan. Metacam once a day and if the sutures don't magically disappear in 2 weeks, we'll take them out. Once they're out, then we can truly tell if it was that causing the crying, or this irritated bladder.

I've ordered Shilintong, I probably won't do anything about the D-mannose, we'll just take this day by day for now. I'll update if anything changes.


Post   » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:19 pm

This is one of the articles I had read that made me realize guinea pigs do have strains of e coli in them just like we do.


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Post   » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:01 pm

Suzi had PDS sutures sitting in her abdominal wall for 6 months until the vets took them out.

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