Sebastian Thread

Post Reply
User avatar
Amy0204
We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:13 pm


I have a 60 cc syringe. To draw the fluids out of the bag, I attach an 18 gauge x 1" needle. When the syringe is full, I carefully remove and dispose of that needle and attach a 21 gauge x 3/4" butterfly (winged infusion set). Keeping the butterfly needle covered and away from the faucet, I run hot water over the syringe part for awhile til the fluids feel comfortable. I push the air out thru the butterfly, get Allison to hold Oreo, then I slip it in. She hates it. The Vet was good enough to give me 7 of each needles so I'd have a week's worth. She's getting 60 cc's of fluid a day.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:23 pm


Wow. I had no idea what a big difference the butterfly could make. Picked one up from our vet this morning -- they only had the one left in a 23-gauge. I've been using 22g 1/2" regular needles, but he is very fussy about it and I wanted to try a smaller size.

I was feeling unsure about using the set, but followed what you said Amy. We're only doing 20cc's, so I got my syringe filled up from the bag, warmed the syringe, went and got Bassy, attached the butterfly, and then took a deep breath before jabbing him. After two false starts (he immediately wriggled out of the towel), I got it. He made one little cry and then that was it! No fussing, no wheeking. He did move around a little on the table -- is that okay? They don't have to remain perfectly still, right?

Do you continue to hold onto the butterfly tabs, Amy, or just let it hang naturally? I just let it stay in on its own, and could then use my "spare" hand to rub his ears. Maybe a small treat would help keep his mind off it-?

Seemed like it didn't take any time at all to get the 20cc's in and the butterfly catheter out, and we were done.

Definitely need to order some more today. I spoke briefly with Dr. M when I picked up the supplies, and she felt that fluid therapy would be a good idea for him -- subq's once or twice a week.

Here's hoping practice makes perfect. :\

User avatar
Amy0204
We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:26 pm


I don't hang onto it once it's inserted (no need to), but Oreo continues to fuss a bit. I think that's because it takes longer and she's got very little meat on her bones at the moment due to having lost weight. Allison stands in front of her and holds her steady and I rub her behind her ears. We get through it ok, but I still cringe when I first put that needle in and she yelps. I would think a treat would be a great distraction.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:41 pm


Does Becky have some suggestions on holding vs. letting go?
www.guinealynx.info/subcue.html

Glad it worked better for you.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:02 pm


I never hold onto the butterflies once inserted (actually encourages the needle to come out if they move--the whole reason to use the butterfly cath with the connected tubing). I just make sure the pig is comfy and not able to jump around too much. A cuddle cup or cosy actually helps me keep even the squirmiest pigs quieter for SQ administration. I've always done it by myself, so I like to do it in a comfy recliner with the pig on my lap or on the floor for safety. I don't need any flying pigs if they get away from me! Usually, though, they stay in the cosies pretty well.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:30 pm


The butterfly set is one part of the equation, the gauge is the other. Amy, see if you can go down to 23 or even 25 gauge for Oreo. 21 makes it go somewhat faster but that's a (relatively) big needle.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:00 am


Another member graciously offered to send me a 25-gauge butterfly to try, and I'm really eager to see if that helps. 23g isn't bad, but if a smaller needle can lessen the discomfort even more, I'm all for it!

By the way, at what point do you guys think I can put Bassy and his buddy Oliver back together? They are currently separated with a divider to restrict movement somewhat, and to monitor output (Sebastian's side of the cage is lined with white towels that I'm changing twice a day; no fleece). Surgery was on Thursday.

Also, I've been giving Bass Metacam but he doesn't really seem to need it. Should I discontinue, or is it a good idea to keep him on it for a few more days to prevent inflammation? He's also on Bactrim.

Thanks!

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:05 am


I use 25 gauge, and I find they work well.

I don't hold on to the needle either once it's in - I just hold on to the pig (in a cozy - or cuddle cup - so there's nowhere to run). The fluids go in pretty quickly even with such a small needle.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:58 pm


Sounds good. Mum, what are your thoughts about separating after surgery? Should I keep them apart until Bass has a follow-up visit? (week after next).

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:59 pm


I'd see what your vet says about this.

I kept Heddwyn and Llewelyn together when they were both neutered. But a lot of that depends on the activity level of the pigs.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:48 am


Bass and Oliver tend to be pretty laid-back together, but I'm still going to give it another few days. Dr. M said just to monitor and use my own judgment on it.

What do some of you do for bedding under hideys? As of yesterday, I went back to fleece for his side of the cage (was just using white towels that I was swapping out twice a day), but I feel like maybe I should continue to use a small towel or cloth pee-pad where he sleeps, and continue changing it out. Thoughts?

Thanks.

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:12 am


I always use a white fleece pad under the boys pigloo on top of the fleece. I find it keeps them from getting wet.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:20 am


Fleece pad?

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:24 pm


Yes. A couple of Christmases ago Target were selling very cheap 'pet beds' which was just a piece of sherpa-type fleece backed with polar fleece. They were, maybe $5 each!

User avatar
Amy0204
We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:59 pm


Wal-mart sells those too. I think they're a little more expensive, but sound very similar.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:19 pm


Ah! I know what you're referring to now. KMart has one on the shelf that I've been eyeing for a while...I think they want $12 for it. It could be cut up to make at least two, maybe three, pads, but I thought it seemed pricey just for a single piece of fake lamb's wool (no backing).

Maybe I'll finally break down and get it when I get paid on Friday.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:38 pm


This is going to sound like a really dumb question, but... When you do subcues, do you (or should you) use a new syringe every time? I know about the needles, but I was talking to the vet tech on the phone today, and she seemed a little surprised that I was using a new syringe for each S/Q. I just feel like it helps reduce the risk of contamination even further.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:11 pm


No - same syringe, but always a new butterfly. I use one big old needle to get the fluids out of the bag (and I re-use this needle).

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:57 pm


The ER clinic that gave us the best subcue lesson recommended we change the syringe each time, for exactly the reason you specify. Having said that, I don't know that it's absolutely necessary.

If you ultimately end up using a drip set, it's moot.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:45 am


Damn. I knew things were going too well.

This evening I gave Sebastian a subcue, using the wonderful little 25g butterflies another member was kind enough to send me. He had his surgery last Thursday to remove his stone and flush out his bladder, and was given a subcue that day, plus Friday and Saturday.

He has been, and is still on, on Bactrim...had doses on Metacam for several days post-op, but no longer on it as he hasn't shown any signs of discomfort. He is scheduled to have his stitches out next week.

Dr. M had said a once-a-week subcues might be the way to go as a preventive measure against future stones, so I gave him one this evening with the intent of doing this every Thursday. During the subcue, he peed and I noticed blood in it. I'm totally discouraged. Why is he suddenly peeing blood?

He is eating, gaining weight, not crying at all, very spunky and active. I had him on just plain towels for a couple of days following the surgery, just to monitor for blood. Nothing after the first day. Then switched back to fleece and towels. I noticed this evening that the pad under his hidey did seem wet (although I've been changing it out twice a day). Could it be a UTI from laying in the same spot so much, now that he's separated from his cagemate?

I just don't even know what to do at this point. Husband is pissed; I'm upset; we're broke; I was hoping to take a vacation next week because I'm so burned out at work, but frankly I'm burned out here, too. Just feeling really discouraged at this point. :(

I'm going to talk to Dr. M tomorrow about maybe switching to Baytril instead. He has tolerated it well in the past. Has anyone else had a pig develop a UTI after bladder surgery?

Post Reply
370 posts