Diarrhea + fit

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Julian
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu May 13, 2004 2:29 am


You might want to hide your stew pot. Just in case.......

That is great news on her recovery.

Julian
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu May 13, 2004 2:37 am


Which pig is going to be on your label? Witherspoon? I could probably put one pig on the front label and one on the back.

I'm going to be gone for two weeks after May 28th. I have the shipping containers, labels and the wine. All I need is a jpg file.

Charybdis

Post   » Thu May 13, 2004 4:12 am


Billy Bob. I will send it! But I'm deciding between these two.

Image


Image


Which is of course the same picture. The second one Paravati tweaked for me.

And of course there is always this.


Image

Perhaps I will just send you the whole pig?


Hee hee hee.

Image

Julian
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 12:03 am


Cute pictures. I could probably work two into the label.


How is Miss Meg doing?

Charybdis

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 1:05 am


She is doing well. Ate all her hay and veggies. She is drinking water but I am still giving SQ. Bactrim, Polycitra, and Torb. Every 6 hours on the Torb -- the incision looks painful and this is the 2nd time she has been opened up there. This pig never ceases to amaze me with her resilience.

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Becky

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 8:32 pm


Personally, I'd keep up the sq's at least every other day for a while.

Charybdis

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 8:34 pm


Murphy's Law always catches up with me when I say things like that.

The vet just called. He said that he removed a mass from Meg's bladder during the surgery and sent it out to the lab. They say that it is a "low-grade malignant sarcoma." The vet feels that it is possible that this is a side effect of the chronic cystitis, but it is also possible that she has bladder cancer.

She is still doing fine. Becky, I'm giving 20 ml of LRS every day.

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Becky

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 8:57 pm


This is totally my opinion. It should not be considered anything else, as I have nothing more than a hypothesis about this.

I think bladder stones are a symptom of bigger problems rather than the cause of other problems. This is why I think this. The many pigs I've read about here and on the stones list seem to have various other medical situations. There doesn't seem to be any commonality, particularly with the multiple-stoner pigs.

In some of the reading I've been doing, calcium absorbtion seems to be affected by various other conditions/diseases/illnesses. I think something gets out of whack and this awful cycle of stones, irritation, sludge, more stones, begins.

I also think there's a difference between the pig that has one, isolated stone and those that go on to produce multiple stones.

Again, this is pure conjecture on my part, but I think it's important and interesting to discuss these things. I'd love to hear what some of the vet techs, nutritionists, chemists, scienctists, etc., have to say about this.

Charybdis

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 9:01 pm


The vet did say that the mass may have something to do with the stone formation.

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 10:19 pm


I don't have any Satins, but do they tend to get stones? It might be tied in with their other calcium problems.

Charybdis

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 10:23 pm


Meg's not a satin.

From what I understand, Satins can have a Ca deficiency. Usually we supplement with calcium lactate for that.

I don't know why, but this is bothering me a lot. She's on her third stone surgery, has one failing kidney and a damaged liver, and somehow the fact that she might have bladder cancer is really upsetting.

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Becky

Post   » Fri May 14, 2004 10:44 pm


Meg sounds like she's feeling OK. Sometimes it's hard to think about all of the possibilities, but her life has been improved so much by you and all of the other people who have helped her along the way.

She's getting good care, seems to be comfortable and is doing really well for three surgeries. Sometimes there are factors beyond our control. If it's cancer, you'll deal. That's what you do.

In the meantime, enjoy all those headbutts.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat May 15, 2004 12:07 am


"Low-grade" is good as far as tumors go. Sarcomas can get quite large if allowed to do so. It is difficult to say whether the stones caused the tumor or vice-versa. It could easily be either one. Did the vet think he removed the whole tumor? Are the nearby lymph nodes a concern? Biopsies of those lymph nodes or abdominal and chest ultrasound to check for mets (metastasis, spread) elsewhere is really crucial in staging cancer. If everything else is clear, she has a better prognosis for sure. Depending upon the type of sarcoma, chemo may be an option. Some types of tumors can be "fixed" by simply removing them. Prednisone therapy can enhance and extend her life.

There are options. I would certainly continue supportive care and ask your vet for prognosis on the type of tumor she has.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat May 15, 2004 7:05 am


Thank you both. Yes, the vet thinks he removed the whole thing. I will ask him about the lymph nodes. She did have U/S already -- would that have picked up any metastasis?

Josephine, would you start her on prednisone right away? Her meds now are Torb, Bactrim, and Polycitra. I do think she needs pain meds at least until those stitches come out.

One good thing is that her bladder was not infected the way it was last time (it was bad). The vet said it healed up really well.

I know that other people may feel differently, but I do not think I would have chemo done. She is a lovely girl and I don't know how I am going to part with her, but her entire life since I have had her has been full of surgery and recovery, then more surgery, and it seems like she is starting to show her years in many areas. She may be older than 5, a ripe old age for a Monterey sow.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat May 15, 2004 12:42 pm


I think the ultrasound should have picked up any other lesions, were they visible at that time. Sorry, I forgot about the prior u/s.

Personally, if the vet thinks it was complete excision I would not use pred unless there was node involvement. I only use pred for severe trauma, neurologic problems, and terminal or dying pigs. The side effects aren't great and pred shouldn't be used long term unless there is significant health risk without it.

I totally understand about the chemo. It also has side effects and usually (depending on the cancer) doesn't buy more than a few months. Sometimes the side effects don't make it worth it in my opinion. In other cancers, especially with a bit younger animals, it can buy years. It may not even be indicated in her case with the type of tumor she has. I really don't know enough about oncology to recommend the exact course of treatment. In dogs, they often get highly malignant bladder cancers which have much poorer prognoses.

If it was a malignant tumor, I think you got the best news that you could. I would just continue her supportive care and current meds unless the DVM thinks otherwise.

Charybdis

Post   » Mon May 17, 2004 3:34 am


My vet sent the lab report:

The specimen consists of urinary bladder. There is an exophytic, polypoid mass of the urinary bladder wall which is discontinuously lined by mildly to moderately hyperplastic transitional epithelium. Focal areas of erosion and ulceration of the epithelium are present. The submucosa is markedly expanded by stromal spindle shaped cells with scan to moderate pale basophilic cytoplasm, indefinite to definied borders and generally uniform oval nuclei with condensed chromatin. Mitotic figures are common (0-2 per 400x field). These cells form loose sheets and elongate streams within a loose, edematous and occasionally slightly myxomatous stroma. There are scattered small caliber submucosal blood vessels within the mass and in the adjacent submucosa, and foci of mild acute hemorrhage. Moderate multifocal mixed inflammation is peresent deeper in the submucosa and consists predominantly of scattered heterophils and lesser lymphocytes and occasional plasma cells. Focal Lymphoid aggregates are present in the deeper portions of the submucosa. Significant infectious organisms are not detected in the submitted specimen.

Diagnosis

Urinary bladder; mesenchymal neoplasm, low-grade malignant (possible low-grade sarcoma).

Comments

Although polypoid changes and stromal fibroblastic proliferation have been described in chronic cystitis in the cavy, the uniform cell population, significant mitotic index, discrete polypod mass formation and paucity of signifcant inflammation directly associated with this lesion support a diagnosis of a mural mesenchymal tumor.

And that is clear as mud to me. Anyone?

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melcvt00

Post   » Mon May 17, 2004 6:42 am


Spindle cell cancer (at least when it's on a limb) has a very low chance of metastasis. Usually, on a leg, amputation is recommended to totally remove the cancer. You can't quite remove a bladder, though.

The mitotic figures are how "active" the cancer is. 0-2/field seems like a low number to me.

She's probably going to have issues with her bladder the rest of her life.

Charybdis

Post   » Sun May 23, 2004 4:28 pm


Meg is making a mess out of her incision site. She began gnawing at it several days ago and I called the vet who said the stitches are probably starting to itch and wanting to come out. She is supposed to have the stitches out tomorrow but right now I am worried because the incision has started to gap open a bit on the lower end and I think I see a little bit of pus.

I guess I could flush, leave it alone until tomorrow, or take her to an emergency vet considering that it is Sunday.

Any other options or opinions?

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sun May 23, 2004 4:30 pm


Just clean it up and keep her away from it until tomorrow.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:23 am


Meg has been doing ok for a while. Her surgical site healed up and a little bit of her hair grew back. However, it is starting to fall out again and her coat has become brittle. The hairloss is bilateral, on her sides. If I didn't know her history I might guess that she had scurvy. Yet I know she gets more than enough C.

Another thing I have noticed is a hard, 'pokey' thing underneath the skin on her belly. Pigglies felt it and thought it could be a growth, but to me it feels like a foreign body, like a staple maybe?

I will take her to Dr. R and ask about the little pokey thing, but as far as the hairloss goes I am guessing that I will find better answers here.

To refresh, Meg is a senior Monterey sow who has had 3 bladder stone surgeries -- Ca Oxalate and Ca Carbonate both. She was spayed recently and then re-spayed to remove a fragment of ovary left in. During the re-spay the vet removed a malignant growth from her bladder and 3 stones. U/S showed one kidney not functioning properly and liver damage from hyperestrogenism (sp).

Meds are Polycitra and Meloxicam. She maintains her weight, but once a day she gets Critical Care mixed with Echinacea, E, C, (vegetarian) Missing Link, B-complex, and a little Naked Juice for flavoring. She is on a special veggie diet aimed at decreasing oxalates and keeping a low Ca:Ph ratio. Otherwise she eats orchard grass, oat hay, and Cavy Cuisine.

I am not giving her SQs anymore because they frightened and hurt her and I decided that was not how I wanted to spend what little time we had left together. She is not dehydrated.

I would just like to know if the hairloss/coat quality could be do to a vitamin deficiency or something else that I can take care of to make her more comfortable. I'm aware that it could be a side effect of kidney failure, bladder cancer, Cushing's or Addisons. Those things I can't do anything about. But does coarse hair come with these things too?

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