Pantufinha's Medical Thread

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winniewai

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:40 am


Glad to share all I know to u~
Yes, as far as I know almost all vet will trim their molars under anesthesia, and in Shui Jai's case, that exotic clinic prefer injection rather than gas, and I remember some studies stated that it's difficult to use gas anesthesia if doing any surgery on month, because they need to put the mask on the pigs' face which covering their nose as well as month during the surgery.

If the surgery is handled by an experienced vet, I think the operation risk is not really high excluding the anesthesia risk, normally there should no wound after the surgery, so after they fully woke up from anesthesia, they will become normal.

Last time, the vet didn't prescribe antibiotic to Shui Jai, but gave him pain killer.

Let us how is Pantufinha after checking, big hug.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:42 pm


Just came back from the vet. Yes, it's malocclusion. :(

Image

Image

It's her x-ray, 2 side views. Don't know why it looks so different one side to another. I can see the malocclusion in the first, not in the second, but I'm not expert.

Anyway. We had a talk about what to do. Vet said that he prefer to try making her eat things in a tempt to naturally fill it in the next 4-5 days, and then see. If it does not work, then, proceeds to the inhalatory general anesthesia and surgery to fill the teeth. He talk about the risks and that he, personally, would risk to try to force feeding her first. At least, if the surgery will be necessary, we would have tried all we could before it.

She received another shot of analgesic, antiinflamatory and vitamin B. He said to give her analgesic everyday to see if it will help her to eat.


And now, I'm puzzled. I don't know what to do.

Should I proceed with the surgery right now?
Should I try to force feeding her? Any tips about how kind of food, etc?

Help, please!!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:23 pm


I don't understand the difference in the xrays either. It almost seems a before and after picture. Does the mouth close more on one side? I would also read about the chin sling and perhaps write Pinta and see if she could post here.

I don't understand thinking this will get better on its own. It seems to me grinding down the teeth would help. I wish I knew more and wish I had some answers for you.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:44 pm


Thank you Lynx. I sent a message to Pinta right now, hope she can take a look here.

My vet said that surgery is risky because of the anesthesia, and that, knowing that I'm handfeeding her, taking care of her, he thinks it's a good a idea to try it first. That the surgery can be done and goes well, but if it does not, we'll know that we've tried everything.

I understand it and that's why I'm confused.
I wish I could just say: "Go on, do the surgery and solve it!"
But knowing the risks, I feel like "hmm, what if I try a bit more first..."

I'm handfeeding her, wheighing her everyday, even twice a day. She wants to eat, I see that. But she can't. I'm doing my best, but I can't let her loose more weight. It will not be good if she needs to be sedated, right?

It's SO hard. I have a horrible experience with anesthesia, and it just make this decision even more difficult.

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Sidera17

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:09 pm


Healing vibes to Pantufinha. :(

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:12 pm


Can you get sweet corn husk in Brazil?

Anaesthesia is tricky, period. They do not need to be sedated as heavily for dental work as they do for surgery, but it's still tricky. The tech needs to know what s/he's doing. Without reading back, how old is Pantufinha and does she have a heart condition?

Maybe most importantly, you have access to inhalant anaesthesia (isoflurane, sevoflurane), correct?

"stated that it's difficult to use gas anesthesia if doing any surgery on month, because they need to put the mask on the pigs' face which covering their nose as well as month during the surgery. "

Yes. To use inhalant anaesthesia for dental work, they give the pig a whiff of gas, remove the mask, file a little, the pig starts to wake up, give the pig another whiff, do more filing, the pig starts to wake up, give the pig another whiff ... you get the idea. I see why a vet would want to use an injectable protocol but gas is far safer, not as deep, and they come up much more quickly. The vet (and techs) have to have patience.

I watched our vet do this one time. One tech monitored the mask; another held the pig's mouth open with a little gauze sling; and the vet did the trimming. And two other techs (and a couple of the practice's resident dogs ;-) watched.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:27 pm


I don't know where I could find sweet corn husk here... :(

I'm trying to give her grass, yesterday she was accepting it, but today it looks hard even to eat it.

The anesthesia used here is isoflurane. My vet said it's general inhalatory anesthesy. What do you think?

I know that surgery means risks. But I also think it's difficult that her teeth will be better, specially now that she's been handfed.

What's the best to do? What's the pro and cons of any decision?
If I decide to wait, how much should I wait?

Thank you for all the help. It's being so hard.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:32 pm


"The anesthesia used here is isoflurane. My vet said it's general inhalatory anesthesy. What do you think?"

That's what you want to use. Ideally the vet would use a technique like I described (print it out for him). Alternatively the vet might want to put her a little further under, so as to give him enough time to do the entire trim in one shot.

Pros: Pantufinha should be able to eat virtually immediately, maybe with a little pain med, like Winniewai describes.

Cons: she could pass from the anaesthesia.

I would not wait long. Go by her weight. I think it will become difficult for you to keep her weight up on handfeeding alone before too long.

Is your vet experienced in dental work?

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:35 pm


Regiane, if you have a specialty grocery store, you might find corn husks there. In winter here, we have two large grocery stores in the area that have sweet corn imported from Mexico, and it usually has the husks on it.

Or, if you have a large farmer's market, someone there might have corn. I'm not sure where in Brazil you are, but if you're in a large city, someone should have corn with husks.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:40 pm


Corn husk has a good bit of silica in it. It wears the teeth very well. GL member mkkayla used it to actually save one of her pigs' life with it. Regular use made it to where she no longer needed regular dental trims.

If anything could help the teeth to realign and occlude properly on their own, corn husk will. But I still think she'll need a trim to get started properly.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:45 pm


So, the best thing is really to go with the procedure, right?

I'll contact him, talk to him and see how much experience he have with this type of procedure. Thankfully he is very frank, not that type of vet that pretends to know things that he doesn't know. He's open to talk and discuss.

Before I went there today, I sent him an e-mail with a link to the malocclusion GL's page to ask some questions, he liked it very much.

If he's not experienced to do this procedure, I can try Odontovet, and odontologic animal clinic, but it's in São Paulo, about 3 hours from here.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:51 pm


"Thankfully he is very frank, not that type of vet that pretends to know things that he doesn't know. He's open to talk and discuss."

This is a good vet. A caring vet with patience and a good feel for cavies in general I think is better than a dental specialist that knows nothing about the species.

If Odontovet does not have experience with cavies, they could do more harm than good even if they know teeth of other animals.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:56 pm


I know that Odontovet had made teeth procedures in cavies, but if my vet also have experience, I go with him. The worse will be the anesthesy anyway.

I'll talk to him tomorrow and let you know.

I'll try to take some rest now, and handfeed my girl in some hours.

Thank you VERY much for all the help.

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winniewai

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:24 am


Sorry to reply u so late~

I totally agree with Talishan, gas anesthesia is much safer.

But if Pantufinha reject to eat, her resistance maybe lower and it's more difficult for her to overcome the anesthesia. No drooling now, right? In case of drooling, it's an emergancy and needa do the surgery immediately i think... :(

Moreover, when the molars become longer n longer, it may hurt her tongue and cause abscess...

Regiane, i absolutely understand what's your feeling now, if there is any accident during the surgery, u will think all caused by u and lots of "what-if" questions... so dun feel shy to ask your vet too many questions, the vets hv the responsibility to tell you how many times they did on the same surgery as well as the success rate.

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Bytxlaura
Remembering Nemo

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:35 am


I see waiting as prolonging the agony and possibly worsening the condition. Also, the more weight she loses, the harder the molar trimming will be on her.

Pantufinha and you will be in my thoughts! *kishes to the sweet girl*

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:06 am


Perhaps your vet could consult with Odontovet if necessary?

Ditto to Winniewai and Bytxlaura both.

pinta

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:20 am


I would not wait for the teeth filing to be done. The teeth will only overgrow more and she will lose more weight. For the best prognosis it is best NOT to wait.

She is very young for malocclusion. You need to find out why she has it. In her case I would say malocclusion is a symptom of something else.

Depite what your vet heard with the stethoscope, I would put her on heart meds right away. As many threads and posts attest, heart disease is very difficult to diagnose in pigs and often isn't diagnosed until the pig has died from it and the heart has been examined during necropsy. If she does have heart issues and is on heart meds she will be better able to withstand surgery. I suggest fortekor and vetmedin

I stink at reading xrays but on one of my pig's xrays I noticed the outline of the skin on an overhead view was not even on both sides. The outline came out further on right side. This pig has been dealing with malocclusion problems since December(he was put on heart meds right away which was a good decision as he now shows circulatory issues around the edges of one ear). Within 4 days of seeing the xray, he had an abscess on the right side which we are still dealing with 2.5 months later.

Since the abscess came to the fore, he has been eating better than he ever has and though it is unlikely, Dr. Legendre has not ruled out that brewing abscess could have contributed to the original malocclusion. He did wear a Chin-Sling but the abscess made it impossible to continue until it is dealt with.

He is only a couple of years old. Too young for malocclusion.

You vet may know of Dr. Legendre as he has done seminars in Brazil a few times. Having your vet contact him would be an excellent idea.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:47 am


Ditto to Pinta.

There is evidence of a link between heart disease and dental problems. That is not to say that every pig with malocclusion has a heart condition, nor does every heart pig have dental problems. The two conditions do, however, overlap more often than would be suggested by random chance.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:00 am


I was blaming the hay, since both Panqueca and Pantufinha developed malocclusion after I changed her hay, but it can be heart disease anyway?

The new (good) hay came today, so I'll see how Panqueca will be for now on. But Pantufinha, she needs the procedure. She is not eating by herself. Even if I cut the veggies in small pieces, she's not able to eat.

I'm trying to collect informations to send to my vet. It's almost 4AM now and I'm taking care of Pantufinha. She's still refusing to be handfed, but I could gave her 4-5 syringes of pellets + baby food mash. She's the same weight as yesterday.

I know that Dr Legendre knows a vet that works at Odontovet. So, I'll try to make my vet contact this vet, to try to contact Dr Legendre - maybe a stupid questions, but does enyone have his email?

Okay, I'm a bit desperate.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:01 am


Just sent an email to my vet. I've linked this page, and sent some informations about Odontovet and Dr Legendre. Just hoping that we can help Pantufinha.

Thanks winnie, Bytxlaura and Talishan for all the help.

Thank you very much, Pinta, for coming here. Your input is very appreciated.

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