UK Piggy - Anselmo's Medical Thread

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:31 am


Okay, so I've not updated yet so here goes.

Anselmo started his new medication (Bendrofluazide 0.625 mg a day) last Saturday, so he's been on it for almost a week now.

I was monitoring him over the past few weeks just to make sure I had a standard to compare him too.

His before:
-Weight = 1180 - 1220g
- Poops = lots and big sausage shapes
- Calicum spots = Not daily, but regular, small and powdery
- I let him drink himself, just to see what he had and he would have between 0 - 15ml of his "orange juice" each day.
-Bright, happy and interested in food.
-He was starting to bloat on one day and didn't eat his breakfast, but a dose of Emeprid and he was back to normal within an hour and had his breakfast.
-Occassional squeaking, sometimes when peeing, sometimes when pooping. Not loud and not regular

After:

-Weight = 1170 - 1220g
-Poops = lots and sausage shapes still
-Calcium spots - He did a few whoopers the first few days but seems to have settled back into his usual routine, None this morning. Still powdery
- He's drinking more - between 30ml and 60ml a day of his "orange juice"
-Still bright, happy and interested in food
-He's been squeaking a bit more, when he poops but still not all of the time or loudly.

So, he's starting to drink more on his own, and I'm going to start with the syringing of fluids again, as 30ml still isn't enough.

He's been squeaking more, but he did leave a few bigger calcium deposits the first few days after the medication started, so he might just be a bit sore.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:25 am


All eminently reasonable. Carry on and keep us posted.

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:03 am


Thanks Talishan.

His cage was cleaned out last night and this morning there were 2 1inch calcium spots and a smaller spot. All powdery still.

I find it a bit strange as the medication is supposed to stop calcium being excreted and absorbed internally instead. So, why it is coming out? And more so than usual?

I have very little medical understanding so I'll leave it to the vet to work out.

Maybe it could be that the excess calcium in his bladder is coming out now as he's drinking more? All guesswork by me.

Onwards and upwards!

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LS in AK
Upside-down & Backwards

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:19 am


No medical advice to add - I just lost a stone pig, so don't know how to win this war - but wanted to send best wishes and ninja vibes to you and Anselmo in trying out this new medication. Hope it helps in the long term somehow.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:04 am


That medication is designed to increase urination. I can't find anything about it stopping calcium from being excreted. The one study I can find on its effects in guinea pigs studied guinea pigs and rats. It had no effect on the guinea pigs as far as calcium and sodium were concerned.

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:16 am


Thanks LS. He's a little star, doing really well despite having had two surgeries. He squeaks a bit sometimes but is usually bright and interested in his food :)

I got that bit from my vets and their conversation with a zoo vet bpatters. Sorry I don't have any backup to it though. I was only passed on snippets by my vet but it's been very effective in zoo animals, and other vets around the country have had good results in rabbits. Obviously that doesn't mean it'll work with pigs, but we thought we'd give it a try. The zoo vet was actively looking for bladder stone pigs to try it on (he's a referral vet for pigs too)

I know of two other people who have tried it on pigs and they both stopped it because of the increased calcium deposits on the pigs bedding.

If he's not showing very positive results in a few weeks they want to take him back off it. As they're not entirely sure how it'll affect him internally.

He is drinking lots more on his own though, so that's a good sign.

After ever x-ray he's had, and he's had quite a few, the vet always commented on him having a thickened bladder wall. So, even if the medication somehow made the calcium go somewhere else I'm not sure how it would penetrate through his bladder wall.

We have enough tablets for about 60 days, so we'll take him back for a review at the beginning of Feb, unless something drastic happens in the meantime.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:14 am


Did he have an xray before starting the treatment? Might there have been an accumulation of sludge that is being peed out? Could you do a quick review of current diet?

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:25 am


He did have an xray before the treatment and it showed signs of sludge so it could be that coming out still.

He currently has per day:
Timothy & Rye Hay
Round lettuce (about 6 leaves)
A tiny slice of carrot
Cucumber (a 1cm chunk)
Red Pepper (1/4)
Tomato (a small cherry tomato)
Blueberries (one)
Currently we can still get cranberries so he has a little bit of one a day
Sweetcorn leaves when I can get them (none at the moment)

No pellets

Brita filtered bottled water.

He also takes Cystassist (which is pretty much just Glucosamine) and Potassium (The vet thinks this won't really do anything in the small dose he has but it won't harm).

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:34 am


Could you weigh the amount of cucumber in grams?

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:36 am


Yeah, I'll do it tonight.

I know a few people have said to take out the cucumber, but he's really not a big drinker so wanted him to still get some sort of fluid into him.

He is drinking more now he's on the new medicine, he had 30ml overnight (compared to maybe 5ml) so I can stop the cucumber if needed.

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:04 am


The piece he had for dinner was 6 g. He has veg twice a day so 12g total.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:57 am


That's less than a half an ounce (total). That's not much.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:28 am


Yes, that is very little calcium. I think you are okay. (a 6 gm piece is under 1 mg calcium)

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:55 pm


That's good news. He'd miss his cucumber if I stopped giving him it.

He's not left any calcium deposits today and has drank about 30ml on his own. But he's spent most of the day buried under his hay asleep so there could be plenty in there.

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:22 am


The calcium deposits are looking alot better than before, and are definitely 100% powdery.

But, he's now squeaking when pooping and peeing, more so when peeing. It's nowhere near as loud as he was when he had stones the last time. There is no sign of blood and he's very chipper. My guess is he's just sore from the sludge coming out, but that's just a guess.

I've leave him a few days and increase fluid by syringe. Then I'll contact the vet to see if they want to add in pain relief, or antibiotic or stop the new med's.

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LS in AK
Upside-down & Backwards

Post   » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:45 pm


NOOOOOOooooooooo......... No squeaking during potty time, Anselmo. No, no, no!

I am just going to say it: sludge/stone pigs are so hard. Finding the white smears of doom is so dispiriting. Hearing them cry is just heartbreaking.

He is not on any pain meds now?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:23 pm


It's eminently reasonable to speculate he's just sore from the sludge coming out. I'm going to hope that's all it is. Please keep us posted on how he's doing.

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:23 am


He doesn't have any pain med's at the moment LS. I do have some Metacam from before, but as he's one of the first piggies to trial these med's, I don't want to mess up the results by adding in medicines without the vet's advice.

He's not puffed up, squinty eyed, straining or looking anything other than happy so I think he's okay. When he had the last stone he was taking Tramadol and it didn't seem to help at all, he was screaming still. So, I think he's okay.

But, any sign of him not being happy then I'll call the vet.

Actually, I think I might email them now, just to give them an update. He'll need to go back sometime next month anyway to review the tablets, and get more if we decide to stay on this track.

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Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:53 am


Wow, the vet is amazing! It's rare to find one so knowledgable AND helpful over here!

She said that Metacam won't interfere with the results so we should start him on it. They've put some in the post for me, just in case I don't have any left from before.

She's happy with my update and said it might just be the extra sludge coming out that's giving him a bit of pain.

But, he has squeaked on and off since I got him. Literally from the day I got him almost 5 years ago.

She'd like to see him again early-mid Feb so she can see him for herself and decide whether to continue or take him off the medication.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:04 pm


That's one super vet. I suspect she also knows and trusts that you know what you're doing, which helps.

Please keep us posted. If the med helps (and I hope it does), that's very worthwhile information, for us as well as for him.

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