Noddy's sick. Aerococcus. Please help

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Post   » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:06 pm

Glad he's home! Hope he starts feeling more like himself soon.

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Post   » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:12 pm

Ditto. Best to him and to you.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:42 pm

Hi, after a relatively quiet few days with some improvement, eating better and taking extra fluids by syringe, I decided to stop syringe feeding Noddy. I had been supplementing him with a mixture of pellets dissolved in hot water and Critical Care. I continued giving extra water with a 1/4 Vit C tablet dissolved in it, as recommended by the rodentologist. Noddy absolutely loves this, so it's no hardship getting it into him.
Unfortunately, this afternoon, Noddy took a bit of a dive, and seemed to be really blown up and "bloaty" again. I can't believe we're back at square 1 again, so soon, and I 'm really upset about it - he's been doing so well up to now.
I've given him Simeticone 2mls and Metacam 1ml (0.5 mg/ml). He is still eating a bit, but my questions are these.
1) Have I caused / contributed to the bloat by letting him have the fluids to quickly (I have only been using a 1ml syringe), and,
2) should I start syringe feeding again? He is munching on a bit of hay as I type this, so I'm hoping I may have caught it before things get out of hand.
Any advice would be very welcome.

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Post   » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:44 pm

For what its worth here's my opinion:

1) No. You are too sensitive to his needs and in any event he is still well enough to cope with 1ml feed/fluid.
2) You don't want to make him lazy and come to rely on the syringe feeds but if you don't think he is taking enough in to maintain his weight on his own then I'd keep offering it.

Any other advice:

Try and get him to understand that the hay is to eat not to wear and it might keep his tummy on more of an even keel!

Hoping someone else will chip in.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:33 am

Thanks as ever for that BamBam. He likes the water with Vit C dissolved in it so much that he just gulps it down really quickly, so much so that I'm afraid he'll choke. I just can't get it into him quickly enough, even though I try to give it fairly slowly. I guess I'm just concerned whether he might be swallowing lots of air when he's guzzling down the water, which could make him bloaty. Could that happen?
His poops are quite hard and dry again this morning. I'm assuming that's because he's not getting enough fluid in. He's obviously peeing out more than usual because of his failing kidneys. I'm probably giving him 20ml a day, but that's in addition to what he's getting from his veg. He has water available in a bottle, but doesn't drink much from that.
How much water should I be aiming to get into him?

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Post   » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:46 am

Vedra always quotes 40ml a day.

You probably know much more than I, about the possibility of swallowing air.

If you think its a danger I wonder if he'd be happy to take the vit c in another form. Some of my girls will eat a quarter of a vit c in tablet form from my fingers. With those that won't I crush it up with CC and they get it that way.

You'd need to swap from the dissolvable tablet - though the thought of him trying to manage one of those enormous fizzy ones in his mouth is quite funny!

That still leaves the problem of persuading him to drink the plain water from the syringe although presumably he'd be less greedy without the wonderful taste of the vitimin c.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:35 pm

BamBam, thanks again for that. 40mls is way more than he's getting. He's obviously eating less, so I'm not sure how much he's getting from his food, but he's taking no more than 5mls from the bottle, which means I really have to supplement his fluids.
I'll give him water only and see how that goes, and I'll try him with ordinary Vit C - definitely don't want any foaming at the mouth with the soluble ones!
I've stopped giving him CC, just to see if he's taking enough food himself. Will weigh him regularly to pick up any losses quickly.
Thanks again for your help and support.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:48 pm

Just been thinking about the Vit C issue and also how I can get more fluid into Noddy, since this is clearly what he needs. I've got soluble Vit C tablets. What if I put 1 in their water bottle? It would ensure he got some Vit C, maybe make him drink a bit more as he likes the flavour, and would mean he didn't take the water so quickly. I'm worried he might either take too much air in, as he really guzzzles it down from the syringe, or else he'll aspirate.
I think I've read somewhere that you shouldn't put Vit C in water bottles, so perhaps this isn't such a good idea. Can anyone tell me why you shouldn't do it? I'm assuming it's because the Vit C is broken down by the light, but could be wrong.
Any advice would be welcome.

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Remembering Nemo

Post   » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:12 pm

Vitamin C in water deteriorates quickly and it would not serve its purpose.

However, in medical cases, such as this one, in which the pig is refusing to drink an adequate amount of water and loves the taste of water with vitamin C, in my oppinion, it helps the piggie start drinking more. What I do in cases like this, is provide several bottles, with different amounts of vitamin C in them, to see if any of them is favored by the pig. I start working with that amount of C in the water and slowly decrease de amount every 3 days.
Sometimes the strategy works wonders :)

Again, this is something I do to stimulate drinking in the cases of ill pigs.

Healthy pigs should get PLAIN WATER and nothing added to it. If one chooses to supplement vitamin C to a healthy pig, do not add it to the water bottle.

Please let us know how Noddy is doing.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:04 am

Thanks for that, I was concerned about the deterioration, but didn't know whether there was another good reason for not doing it. Having fought to turn him around from his latest illness, I want to do all I can to give him as healthy a life as possible, for as long as possible.
I like your idea of trying several different bottles, and I'll certainly give that a try.
Do you think I should continue supplementing his Vit C in the longer term? He is eating hay and veggies, but not without a bit of encouragement from me.
Other than that, he's holding his own and is definitely brighter than he was a couple of weeks ago. He will now give his "wife pig" a telling off, whereas he couldn't be bothered a few weeks ago.
Thank you for your interest and advice.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Hi Folks, Just thought I'd give you a quick update on Noddy's progress. Having abandoned him while I went away, I left him and MaggieMae, to the tender ministrations of BamBam. I'm really pleased to report that when he came back from his stay with her, he weighed in at a respectable 1230g. Today, 2 weeks later, he weighs 1270g!
I'm still supplementing his fluids, but I don't think he needs any extra food, just know (I haven't been doing so for some time now).
He isn't back up to his greatest weight, and no doubt, never will be, but at least we've pulled him back from the brink. He's definitely brighter and more active, even noticebale to my non-guinea-pig loving friends.
Thank yo to all of you for your messages of help and support, from both of us.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:02 pm

(Posted in error elsewhere)
Noddy, an almost 5 year old castrated male, and MaggieMae thought to be 3yrs (rescued), female live together quite happily.

Noddy has had ?pasturella several times over previous winters, treated succesfully with Baytril. He has recently had issues with ?urine infections and also had an infection under his foreskin. He has been treated with Baytril in the past for these, and has had 2 episodes of bloat possibly related to the Baytril. He has had Septrin without any apparent problems. He is known to have problems with his kidneys (protein and ketones in his urine) and liver ( very high levels of urobilinogen in his urine, and anaemia). He had a significant weight loss recently, but once we started supplementing his fluids and he had had a course of Septrin, he has picked up and has gained a bit weight, although it does tend to vary a bit. (I am weighing both of them weekly.) He lost 250g in 3 months, gained 70g in 2 months, but has lost 60g in the past week.

MaggieMae seems to be fit and healthy, and has slowly gained a little weight over recent months.

Both pigs are eating very well. On the advice of a local rodentologist, I am supplementing their Vit C with soluble tablets, which I am syringe feeding them.

Recently I have noticed an unpleasant smell coming from their cage. It is a bit "fishy". My problem is that I don't know who it is coming from. Neither of them appears distressed in any way when the pass urine, nor have I seen any blood. My suspicion is that it is coming from Noddy, given his history. His penis is clean, so I know that is not causing the problem.

Today, Noddy has had some rather loose poops.

So,what to do? Do I increase his fluids and see if that helps first? Go to the vet and try to get Septrin rather than Baytril, on the assumption that Noddy is the culprit? I really can't face yet another episode of bloat, and I'm sure he can't. Or is there anything more natural than antibiotics I can try in the first instance to see if that solves the problem?

Hoping someone out there can advise. Thanks.

10/7/2011, 7:03 pm

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:12 pm

Thanks Lynx. Apologies for the 2nd thread.
I've sniffed both of them and still can't convince myself who it is. I will give extra fluids, keep a really close eye over the weekend and see if anything changes.
I've got some old urine dipsticks. Is it worth testing the urine, knowing Noddy has lots of abnormalities present anyway? Iguess if there is a UTI there would be blood present as well as the protein we know is always in his urine.
Should I start Noddy on a probiotic because of his loose poops? I don't know what's causing it because he's not had any antibiotics or a change in diet.

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Post   » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:24 pm

Have you checked Noddy over closely to see if there is any collected debris? The special poops are much stinkier than the regular ones too. I am hoping you can bring him around.

The link I posted earlier:

Even though he's castrated, you might want to check this out too: gl/impaction.html

A probiotic will not hurt. Do read the diarrhea page closely and use any diet tips you find.

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Post   » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:12 am

Without reading back, have you considered metronidazole for him?

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:05 am

Lynx. Thank you for that. He's not had any antibiotics for some time, so that cause doesn't seem to apply. He's also not had any change in diet recently. The only change with respect to his diet is that I've been away for a few days, leaving them in the care of my neighbours (who have looked after them many times previously). They have only fed them according to the instructions I left. They told me that when they came in to check in a morning, absolutely every scrap of food they gave the day before had gone (unusual).
Could this be a cause?
I don't think he's impacted, although it is something I have considered several times in the past. I have been able to squeeze a few strange looking droppings out on the odd occasion, but not now. I think I need someone to actually show me how to check properly, because despite looking here, and in text books, I'm not sure I'm doing it properly.

Talishan, no, he has not had metronidazole. I will suggest that when / if I need to take him to the vet. I'm really concerned that any antibiotic may give him bloat, as the last twice he has had Baytril, this has happened. Is metronidazole well tolerated?

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Post   » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:58 am

The intestinal tract can get off even without antibiotics. It's the care that might help.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:45 pm

Thanks Lynx. I've started him on a probiotic and Critical Care to supplement his diet in the hope I can maintain his weight.
I've heard plantain is good for the digestion. Does anyone have any experience of it?
Other than that, I will keep a very close eye on him and get him back to the vet asap if he shows any warning signs.

You can quote me

Post   » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:09 pm

"I'm really concerned that any antibiotic may give him bloat, as the last twice he has had Baytril, this has happened. Is metronidazole well tolerated?"

Yes. Metronidazole isn't really an antibiotic; it is an antimicrobial. It kills some bacteria but also kills protozoans, amoebae (sp???), and various other single-celled nasties. It is usually very well tolerated, even better than Septrin. We've had only one who could not tolerate it (and she could not tolerate anything).

Soft/loose droppings + bad smell = metronidazole (to start at least) IMO.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:05 pm

Thanks Talishan, I was desperately trying to remember what group Metronidazole belongs to. It's really helpful to know it's better tolerated and less likely to cause side effects than antibiotics. I just don't want to run the risk of anything giving him bloat, as he's got enough to cope with as it is.
He's holding his own at the moment, so I'll see how he is in the morning before taking him to the vet

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