ongoing URI, A/B's not working??

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:26 pm


If it mixes well and your guinea pig is okay with the suspension, mixing with 10cc should work fine.

I think one of the considerations is to have a suspension that has enough volume that it is easy to measure. If there is a very small amount of syrup, the dose would be tiny and not as accurate.

grace505

Post   » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:50 pm


Lynx, that makes sense, with 20 cc's, the dose is .96 cc's, so i figured if i could half that, it would be easier to get him to take it all, bitter or not.

Lana

Post   » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:49 am


No, mix 20.

As I wrote in the post about it, cipro tastes incredibly awful. At 10cc, you have an incredible fight on your hands to get the pig to drink this crap. There is no benefit to torturing your pig.

With the extra syrup, it helps. They don't particularly like it, but it is tolerable. The aftertaste is pretty bad, so have a carrot or something on hand so they can eat that after to help wash the taste out of their mouth.

This is why I add a couple of CCs of the FlavorX sweetener. It helps so much, and helps make it taste okay. But you have syrup, so that's what you're dealing with.

Total mixture is 20cc. Administer it twice a day. Keep the mixture in the fridge, and shake well before drawing a dose.

grace505

Post   » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:08 am


Thanks Lana, i figured there was a method to the madness but wanted to check.

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:05 pm


Lana, man, you weren't kidding about the Cipro being bitter, were you!! Yuck! When you were talking about peanut butter flavoring, were you talking about FlavorX flavoring, or did you mix with actual peanut butter? Besides the mushroom powder, were there any other things that you mixed with the individual doses to hide the taste that worked well? Thanks!

Lana

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:38 pm


Did you buy dark maple syrup? The real kind, not artificial pancake syrup? Real maple syrup comes in different grades - light, medium etc. Medium is the 'lightest' you should buy. Darker it is, the more flavour it has.

I used FlavorX peanut butter flavour. In that individual dose, you may have to add another .5cc maple syrup. But that is a lot of sugar for a pig...

There must be a pharmacy in town who will take pity on you and sell you some cherry flavouring etc. Kids oral meds are flavoured by pharmacists every day...

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:56 pm


I got pure maple syrup, US grade A dark amber. On Friday i was inspired to call Walgreens again, even though i couldn't beg, borrow or steal the FlavorX before, and the pharmacist gave me 2 cc's for free!! So it's all mixed properly like the recipe you gave, it's just still very bitter. I agree that adding more sugar is probably not the best idea, but could work in a pinch. I tried mixing it with peanut butter this morning, it helped but the pigs were still not happy at all. Just thought you might have tried some other things to mix in, if not, it's okay, i'm just going to have to experiment a little. I did have some bell pepper on hand for them afterwards like you said, i'm sure that helped clear the taste! Thanks!

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violagirl3

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:04 pm


grace- I used to mix Eddie's meds with odwalla when I couldn't get Flavor-x. I would usually get either Strawberry C Monster or Blueberry B Monster or Carrot Juice because they are 100% fruit/veggie. If the maple syrup doesn't work, you could try that.

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:09 pm


viola, thanks for the tip, i like the 100% fruit/veggie thing, too! The good thing is, like Lana said, i can mix the individual doses with stuff and see how they like it without wasting a lot or messing with the mixture. I'm sure i'm going to have to experiment with different things, it's just good to hear what has worked for others already! Thanks!

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:12 pm


I could be wrong, but i think i need to mix it with the syrup first of all so i get the suspension of the medication that's needed, right? And then from there i can mix stuff in the individual doses, does that sound correct?

Lana

Post   » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:54 pm


Yes, make up the suspension as previously directed. Then when you have the individual dose, then you can add to it. It may mean giving your pig 2cc of fluid at the end.

With the flavorX, use .01cc (1/10 cc) per dose. Perhaps that, with the juice or whatever, will help.

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:14 pm


So the Odwalla juice worked mixed with the individual doses, it came out to like two or three cc's in the end, but they were MUCH happier.

Of course i don't feel like the meds are working at all with Turbo, i've seen minimal, if any, improvement and in fact, i feel like he's declined if anything. He is seeming more lethargic, eating less hay, although he's keeping up his weight just fine, and the congested-sounding and labored breathing made a reappearance and has not subsided, plus he's getting eye gunk, which he never even got before!!

I'm going to get the culture done and switch him back to Baytril in the meantime as i wait for the results. The vet said it takes three to four weeks for the cultures to come back, does that sound right??? My question is, does anyone have an opinion on how switching to the Cipro for the past seven and a half days will affect the culture? Should i switch Turbo back to the Baytril for an amount of time before getting the culture done, or just get the culture and hope the results come out right? I can't afford the culture once, let alone paying for it twice, i need to do what i have to to make sure the results that come back are accurate. I wouldn't mind switching him back to the Baytril for two, three, four weeks or whatever before getting the culture as long as i knew that the results would be accurate.

Last question, does anyone know if the Baytril is okay to compound like the Cipro? Because of course, the bigger dose tablets are cheaper than the 22.7, so i'd like to see if i can just mix them like the Cipro and spend less money. My credit card is killing me!

I have a call in to the vet but if he doesn't call me back today, i'm going to start Turbo back on the Baytril i have left over from a few weeks ago, he has four doses left and i'd like to get him back to feeling better ASAP!

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:09 pm


Just talked to the vet, am switching Turbo back to the Baytril right away, as he's not doing so great. I'm going to do Baytril for a couple weeks and get him as good as he can get in regards to his congested and labored breathing and clear that up as much as possible and then do the culture. Reason is, the vet is worried he might need a little sedation and we both agreed that better breathing equals less risk with the sedation. If anyone has any answers to any of my above questions, though, i'd appreciate it!! Thanks!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:23 pm


Have you thought of nebulizing him? Has any kind of culture been done? I am so sorry he is having such a difficult time.

grace505

Post   » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:14 pm


I have thought about nebulizing him, i just had a hard time getting specifics about which meds, how much meds, how much saline, how long, etc, etc. Lana gave me some good info finally, and so have some others, but it's been so long fighting this thing that i decided that it's time to get the culture done, even though i don't really have the money. But i've spent so much time and money trying to avoid spending that $180, that i could have saved probably much, much more by getting the culture sooner, like over $800 probably.

Since the Baytril/Doxy just didn't ever cure it, although it helped a lot, i decided to try the Cipro since it was so cheap, like only fifteen dollars for the meds and syrup, to try it, but that didn't work and before starting to try all the probably endless combos of meds, oral, nebulizing, etc, i'm just going to get the culture and know for sure which direction i need to go in. Plus Lana has brought up the fact that i could create a superbug playing with all the different meds and that's certainly not what i want, this is hard enough to beat without that on top!!

I've talked with the vet and he's brought up the fact that it could just be something that's never cured, and i'm okay with that, but feel that if i can cure it, that's better all around.

Thank you for your sympthy for my little Turbo, the good news is that he's been pretty okay, eating, drinking, pooping well, it's just the snot and sneezing that's never went away, so at least i'm not handfeeding and he's feeling crappy all the time!

User avatar
LS in AK
Upside-down & Backwards

Post   » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:53 am


Grace, have you discussed with your vet the possibility of using gentamicin sulfate eyedrops? My little boy had a crusty eye a few weeks ago. We decided to go with the eyedrops to treat the eye and try to get some antibiotics into his sinus cavity, and his condition has improved. Less sneezing. More energy. It seems to be working. I nebulize him with 3 cc sterile saline every day, also, and that really helps with the general congestion.

grace505

Post   » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 am


LS, i've actually used those eye drops for him for an eye thing he had going on to prevent infection and have heard PinkRufus say the same thing about sinus cavity stuff. I had a hard time getting the eye drops in and not rolling out, but otherwise didn't really notice that they helped with the congestion and sneezing.

The crusty eye showed up when i took him off the Baytril/Doxy and tried the Cipro, so i'm sure it's just that, now that he's back on the Bay trip, i bet it disappears pronto! The same goes with the congestion and labored breathing, it's been a while since that was happening, but the Cipro just really didn't seem to be doing anything.

I have been interested in nebulizing him for quite some time, but as i said, have had a hard time getting specific doses, etc, and my vet doesn't know anything about nebulizing either. Before i spend the $50 on a nebulizer, etc, and start into the whole i could try this, this, this, this, etc, i'm going to get the cultures and see what they say.

I would have done the culture earlier, but the Baytril/Doxy seemed to make him better, and better, and better, and better, but he was just never cured, so i've finally given up on it. Let's all cross our fingers and pray that it comes back with the answers i need or i just don't know what to do after that!!

So i take it your boys are not cured, then, and it wasn't just allergies as you were hoping? It sounds like at least your boy isn't as sick as he was with the last round of meds!

grace505

Post   » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:58 am


WOW, so the difference in Turbo today is like night and day, literally and figuratively!! He hardly sounds congested at all and there is only a tiny hitch in his breathing today, as opposed to the pretty labored breathing going on last night. All this after only one dose of Baytril/Doxy! I'm not sure why i waited seven and a half days to go back, i felt like that wasn't long enough to give the Cirpo a real chance to work, but apparently following my intuition and changing back was the right thing to do. I just can't believe how much better he is today! I can't wait to get him back on track fully and get the culture done.

I'm still very interested to see if anyone has any opinions regarding his being back on the Baytril/Doxy and waiting a period of time to get the culture done. My thinking is that switching back and forth between could affect what was being killed, what wasn't, and affecting the results of the test. I am overthinking it too much??

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:30 pm


Sounds like giving this combo a chance to work and after the course is done (make sure it is long enough to knock whatever out), watch for a recurrence and if so, do a culture then, before starting anything else.

Do watch for intolerance.

gl/antibiotic_advice.html

grace505

Post   » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:53 pm


Lynx, well unfortunately, the Baytril/Doxy combo won't kick it, it's what i've been doing for almost six months now in ever-increasing doses, the last hike being 15mg/kg of Baytril and 5mg/kg of Doxy, before trying the Cipro this last week. He always seemed better and better, but just never got good enough to even stop the antibiotics to see if he was cured.

The only point of going back to it is that he's slipped back a lot with the Cipro over the last seven days, again with the labored breathing, lots of congestion, etc, and i want to get him back to where he was before, no breathing issues at all, no congestion, just simply sneezing and minimal snot, before the vet tries to get the culture because he fears he will need to do a little sedation to get a proper culture from the back of the throat and we want as little risk as possible with the sedation.

The vet and i agreed that we would like to see those culture results before we try anything else and before trying to go anymore off label with the Baytril and trying even higher doses or anything like that. Lana had suggested keeping the Baytril and dropping the Doxy, instead trying nebulizing some Gentamycin, and i think that's a good idea, but like i said, there are too many possible combos to go willy-nilly trying things, wasting time and money, without getting the culture. Poor Lana, she's probably thinking IT'S ABOUT TIME, i kept trying to tell her!! :)

I give them both probiotics twice a day after their meds, it's helped a ton, i feel, with the intolerance issues that we first had. Thanks for your help and input!

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