Sagan's Medical Thread

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sef1268

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:52 pm


Did your vet comment at all about his heart? That one side looks a little enlarged to me, but it's a little hard to tell and I wasn't going to comment on it until you said that.

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milosmumma

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:01 pm


Neither noted heart concerns...I hope they would if they had them. We went through lots of issues with our first pig with them...he was a heart pig.
Sagan's congestion went away after we stopped force feeding him last. We could hear it when he made his sounds and a few other times...then he sneezed or coughed loudly twice and seems ok now. His eyes are much brighter since being back in his cage.

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sef1268

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:39 pm


Whew, okay. Maybe something just went down the wrong way.

Sending lots of good thoughts to Sagan and you.

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milosmumma

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:15 pm


That's what I'm hoping. I was definitely panicked when I heard it initially.

Since the stones are in both ureters, the vet mentioned being concerned that Sagan wasn't able to urinate. He did twice while we were at the vet--no blood and no signs of pain. How will we know if he has lost the ability to urinate other than separating him from his cage mate? Would he show a clear indication of change in pain level? I know he wouldn't survive long after losing this ability. I just don't want him to be suffering, but want to buy as much time with him as I can.

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milosmumma

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:35 pm


I should also mention, surgery was not an option in our area. I have read that even if we found someone to do the surgery, it would leave a bump in the ureters which would make it likely to gather a stone again. Is it unusual to have stones in both ureters like this?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:46 pm


I am so sorry he has stones. Hoping for the best for him.

Let me know if you'd like your xrays added to your thread permanently.

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milosmumma

Post   » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:46 pm


I was wrong, I can still hear congestion when he talks but not in breathing. His right eye is now runny too.

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LS in AK
Upside-down & Backwards

Post   » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:03 am


So sorry to hear of Sagan's troubles. Sounds like an awfully tough situation for you both.

Also sounds like he may have picked up a secondary URI.

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sef1268

Post   » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:32 am


Is it unusual to have stones in both ureters like this?
From what I've read (and my own experience with Zachary), no. Ureteral stones appear to be fairly aggressive and fast-forming.

As far as inability to urinate...that never became an issue for Zachary, despite having multiple stones in both ureters. The biggest problem was the failure of his kidneys. Towards the latter stages, he had lost a dramatic amount of weight and clearly didn't feel well.

I'm so sorry that you're both dealing with this stuff.

How are you hand-feeding him? I still wonder if he may have aspirated a bit of the CC.

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milosmumma

Post   » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:14 am


Thank you. Yes we are still giving CC. The only thing he is willing to eat now is lettuce. He no longer resists the CC, but doesn't go for it either.

Do we give him something in case it is an infection? No nasal discharge but congested sometimes and has the eye discharge on one side.

So my question for all of you would be, am I crazy for giving him more time? Am I being cruel? I know the ultimate outcome, I just feel like it is giving up to throw in the towel....but I'm petrified of putting him through the pain of being unable to urinate, if he hits that point. We have never had to make this decision and it just sickens us. I have a hard time because he doesn't seem at the point of no return like Milo so often did.

He currently has no UTI...no squealing while going to the bathroom..no blood...moves around fine (but doesn't want to).

Diva

Post   » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:16 pm


Are you mixing the CC with pumpkin? If not try that or pureed cucumbers. The cucumbers were especially popular with one of my pigs who had kidney failure.

Is his abdomen bigger and feeling sort of like a water balloon if you push on it? When my kidney failure pig was failing, he developed ascites (abdominal fluid). Lasix helps to stimulate its removal and, in the case of my pig, also stimulated his appetite.

Still looking to see if I can find anything else to suggest.

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sef1268

Post   » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:52 am


Sending a ton of good thoughts your way today, Milosmumma. I have been in your shoes too many times, unfortunately, and know what you're going through.

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milosmumma

Post   » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:51 pm


Hi Beth--we did mix it with pumpkin and he is still not interested. Haven't tried cucumber yet, but he does normally enjoy that when we give it to him so we can give it a try. I've been tricking him into eating a few pieces of hay at each feeding of CC. I stick it in the syringe and push it slowly into his mouth. He chews and swallows. Poops have definitely increased and improved, but all else stays the same. Eyes still runny, but I don't hear congestion anymore. I don't feel anything in his belly but I will keep that in mind. Is giving him sub Q fluids a bad thing? His kidneys are functioning (just have some calcification on them) it is just that the two stones have formed. If I do give Lasix, will it defeat the purpose of fluids? If I don't give Lasix, will it cause his kidneys to fail faster?

Sef- thank you for your thoughts. We are headed in at 3p today (ET) and are hoping the vet will give us a chance to explore options. Our normal vet is definitely out today and not there to consult with, so we are nervous.

I appreciate everyone's efforts to help us figure out our options.

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dellybean

Post   » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:55 pm


Sending positive thoughts for poor little Sagan, and for you. I can't imagine how stressful it must be to have a sick pig and a newborn. Best of luck and good wishes.

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milosmumma

Post   » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:40 pm


Good news. We took him in today and the vet was much more upbeat and interested in the alternatives we presented based on information you have shared. She is doing some of her own research tonight and in touch with a colleague out of state who she believes could have information to offer us. We are so thankful we are all on the same page and she is going the extra mile for us.

Sagan has maintained his weight since Monday. We will be doing sub Q fluids every day at home and continuing CC. We are not continuing the pain meds as they didn't seem to make a difference. He is not squealing or trembling and doesn't mind when touched in the kidney area or stomach palpated. He is producing a lot of stool and it isn't stringy or small anymore...though not totally normal either. As I mentioned, we are tricking him into eating hay through a syringe. A few minutes ago he actually ate a piece of hay on his own. The vet is having us give him Baytril in case he has the start of an infection (his eyes are still a bit runny). We know the ultimate outcome of Sagan's situation, but we are trying out are options and hoping to have more time with our sweet guy. Thanks everyone...we will continue to update.

dellybean--having an infant and force feeding a pig is definitely a journey! At least we are feeding on a consistent schedule and it keeps us on track with Sagan.

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milosmumma

Post   » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:09 am


He continued to do well tonight in terms of eating a bit of hay on his own and wanting water. Unfortunately I heard a few little sounds when he was trying to poop. He hadn't done this until tonight. Milo did this a few times when having a lot of CC, but I know it is also a sign of bladder infection or stones. With his behavior improvement I just can't believe things could've actually gotten worse in there?

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:30 am


Maybe he was a little tender from the exam yesterday?

Keeping you guys in my thoughts. :)

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milosmumma

Post   » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:53 pm


We have heard it a few times. It is a quiet little "talking" or cry noise, unfortunately.

He had a great night and morning. He started eating hay on his own and going to the water bottle. Then we started Baytril and he went back to the way he has been the past few days. We are continuing what we've been doing, and hoping any infection goes away and he can bounce back again once the meds have stopped. We are doing sub Qs at home, but I think we did it incorrectly today because a lot (if not all) leaked out. We will try again tomorrow.

The vet took the time to research and talk with a colleague out of state who has experience with an herbal supplement and is prescribing it/ordering it for us to try. Apparently they have a few other ideas based on experiences with rabbits, so we will see. We are supposed to be in touch with our regular vet on Monday.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:45 pm


This might help you: gl/subcue.html

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:10 am


I can't remember if he has already been on Bactrim, but wonder if he might tolerate that better?

Subcues take a little practice, but hang in there! You're doing such a great job with him.

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