Sagan's Medical Thread

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:18 pm


Lynx--thank you. I think we may not be pinching the skin/pulling it up enough. Also, yes please add the xray photos permanently.

Sef--thank you again for your continued help, especially with that med. He has not been on bactrim--it could be worth a shot. The vet prescribed Baytril for 7 days as a preventative measure...today is day 2 and they aren't open tomorrow. I will see what she thinks on Monday. I appreciate the encouragement with everything. Luckily my husband does the injections. I just can't bring myself to do it because I keep feeling like he will think we are hurting him intentionally, which I know is silly because he knows we love him. We "failed" again at the sub Qs today, but tomorrow is another day.

He is hanging in there. Still not interested in hay since the meds started, but we are getting a lot of CC and lettuce into him. Counting down until the med arrives and the Baytril stops.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:12 pm


I can tell you (if I didn't already?) that fluid therapy helped a lot with our renal failure pigs.

What kind of needles/syringes are you using for the fluids? (is it Lactated Ringers?). I had pretty good luck with butterfly infusion sets like this:

Image

vs. regular syringes and needles. I may still have some of the smaller gauge (25g) sets if you'd like to give them a try. The injections go slower, but they're less painful and the tubing allows a little bit of mobility while you're pushing the fluids (key: plate of veggies to distract). :)

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:26 am


We do have the butterflies, but thanks for your offer. Every time we do it, some of the solution leaks down his back and there isn't a raise hump like at the vet. We will try again and if unsuccessful we will have to head back to the vet to see what our issue is!

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:14 am


If it's leaking, the needle isn't in far enough. After you pull up and "tent" the skin, you'll want to make sure that you push the needle all the way in until it stops at the butterfly wings. That way, even if the needle wiggles out slightly if he moves, the tip of the needle will remain "in." (Hope that makes sense). :)

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:01 pm


That makes sense--thank you. We seemed more successful today.

Sagan just passed two small clots of blood. His urine isn't pink, but the clots came from it. I'm not sure what to do...or what this means for the progression of the problem. He is not crying while urinating, but he is clearly not feeling well.

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:16 pm


Should we contact an emergency vet to pick up pain medications? What are our options? The vet initially had him on Buprenex (injections) and said Metacam is a no-no for this type of problem. Metacam is what we always gave Milo and it made him bounce back, so we are at a loss. Could the clots be indicating a UTI? He has been on Baytril for 2.5 days now. Does he need to be separated from his cagemate? We have kept them together so far for their emotional well being.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:19 pm


I still wonder if maybe he's not tolerating the Baytril very well. He seemed to feel better before being put on antibiotics, right? Or no? Do you have any Bactrim on-hand?

Metacam is extremely hard on the kidneys. I'd avoid it unless it reaches the point where all you can do is keep him comfortable.

Pain-wise, though -- do you know that he's actually in pain vs. stomach upset? How do his poops look? And appetite?

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:25 pm


Yes, he improved and then declined as soon as he got his first dose of Baytril. We don't have any Bactrim...I can call our regular vet tomorrow at 8am but have no way to contact her before then. I don't know for sure that he is in pain. The symptoms that make me think he is in pain are that he has his fluffed hair, is often hunched, and seems unhappy....these are not new today, though. He has been hanging around in the corner of the cage for a little while every few hours instead of just his pigloo...I'm not sure what that is about. He appears dehydrated, but hopefully the fluids we got into him today will give him a boost. He has no appetite other than lettuce and carrots (carrots with encouragement) and does take water willingly from a syringe. His poops are small and dry, but that has been consistent since he was sick. Should we be panicking about the sudden clots?

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:40 am


I would definitely mention it when you talk to your vet today.

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:19 pm


We went to the vet today. She suspected his stones may have moved into the bladder or shifted in the ureters based on him now squeaking and his clots he passed yesterday with the absence of other blood. We did am xray but unfortunately (and fortunately in some ways) it showed only a slight shift of one to the side and no other changes. Thank God for no increase in size or number. She suggested not doing an antibiotic at all so his appetite will come back, and also because we aren't convinced he has an infection...so no more Baytril. The Chinese herb will arrive Thursday, and we are beginning a diuretic (don't have the name of it right here) to increase urine production and output in hopes it will impact the stones. We also have tramadol for pain management. We are stopping/not beginning any new Meds for 48hrs so he can bounce back a bit.

He brightened up at the vet and when we got home. I think he was afraid we were giving up on him. I hope he knows how much we love him. Please send positive vibes to our sweetie that we will be able to buy him some time. Thank God for another day.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:46 pm


Positive vibes here! I surely hope he was not afraid you were giving up!

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:18 pm


I keep trying to prepare myself for needing to accept the inevitable outcome, and with that I think I feel guilty as if I'm giving up. I thought for sure our vet would tell us we were out of time today, and maybe Sagan sensed that. I don't want him to be in pain, but I can't let go when we still have some hope, too.

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:46 pm


Day 2 off of Baytril...now eating veggies again though not back to hay. His eyes are looking brighter and he is his same old adventurous self when out of the cage. In the cage he seems tired and not well...very strange.

Tonight we are supposed to begin our pain medication (Tramadol), continue fluids, and begin the diuretic (hydrochlorothiazide). The herb is arriving tomorrow. Are diuretics truly ok long term? Not that he will be on it forever, but the vet would like him to take them so it can help potentially flush the stones and keep him urinating. I know all meds have the potential to impact appetite...anyone have experience with either med mentioned above? I feel like we gave Milo Tramadol at some point, but he was typically a Metacam guy so I can't remember. Any advice is much appreciated.

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:46 pm


So within 10 minutes of posting that, I went to get something out of the fridge and who do you suppose came running out, stood nice and tall begging at the bars of his cage? Sagan! He was the first of the four to come out. He hasn't begged like that for probably 10+ days. He is eating carrot, green pepper and lettuce now. This makes me hesitate to start Tramadol. I was the one who pushed for a pain med--others have questioned if he needs one. He sometimes seems in pain, and other times not. He does make very quiet noises when he poops and his hair is often fluffed. Should I just wait and save it for as needed? I still plan to start the diuretic tonight.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:43 pm


Yay to Sagan, eating veggies! :) That's very good news.

Personally, if it were me (and this is just me), I'd wait a bit on the Tramadol and let his appetite continue to return to normal (or as close to it as possible). If he really needs it, then by all means -- do whatever you need to do to keep him comfortable. I'd just be a little reluctant to overload him with too many meds when he seems to regaining his interest in food.

One thing I will add, is that a lot of our guys have had trouble with bell peppers causing gas and bloat. You might keep an eye on that.

ETA: I'm not seeing any drug information for hydrochlorothiazide use in rabbits or rodents. ?

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:39 pm


Thanks sef. We did decide to wait on the tramadol. We gave him his first dose of the HCT...hoping it is truly ok. We are giving 20mLs of sub Qs typically daily, but I did some reading on your old thread on Zachary (I'm sorry for your heart break!) and I'm wondering could this overload the kidneys? The vet said we could do every other day with that amount if we want. He is drinking a little on his own, and takes some from a syringe after critical care. Will a diuretic just mess with him? I know the vets did a lot of research for us so they must have found something suggesting it would help. I just hate doing something that's never been done/used by a guinea lynx person.

And thanks for the heads up on pepper! He is only taking a few bites, so hopefully he is ok. We will be careful and aim for the others he is interested in.

User avatar
Bugs Mom

Post   » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:51 pm


I'm glad he seems interested in food too. Always a good sign.
As for HCT in GP's I have no advice but I take 25MG once a day. I've also been told to drink lots of water to prevent dehydration. That may be what your vet has in mind. Ditto on the peppers.

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:40 pm


Thank you, Bugs mom. He continues to eat some veggies today--yay! Also, not to jinx it, he has started to eat a little hay from our hands...though still not in his cage. Yippee! Hoping it continues. We did give one dose of the HCT last night. We are supposed to do every 12hrs but I'm nervous. I don't want to bombard his system with all this new stuff. Hoping that herb gets here today.

User avatar
milosmumma

Post   » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:15 pm


Updates... Sagan's behavior is almost back to normal with the exception of eating. He is out and about...sometimes running away from us when we try to catch him...kicking...seeking us out...chewing on everything...playing with his tube...drinking...begging...hanging out in his hay. He is eating some hay and taking veggies.

Negative new thing would be the color of his urine. It is now darker. It is hard to say exactly what color, because when he pees on something beige (e.g. our futon cover!) it just looks slightly off (maybe pinkish) but when he pees on a uHaul blanket it dries almost copper and darker? I know that sounds weird. We also don't see any difference on his fleece...just when he is out getting critical care with us. It also looked a little bit thicker. He is still only squeaking while pooping.

So, my question is, is this:
1. UTI, 2. Normal with stones, 3. Resulting from either the HCT or the herbal power? The herbal powder is light brown...almost like chocolate powder. Is the thickness in urine output considered sludge, or is that only visible/existent in the bladder?

Thoughts??

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:47 pm


It could be dried blood or porphirins. Or one of your guesses! Maybe the vet could examine the urine?

Post Reply
102 posts