Charlie's Medical Thread

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Cinnabuns Legacy

Post   » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:35 pm


In regards to the defecate issue, I imagine probiotics could not hurt. I use benebac for small animals (it has a picture of a guinea pig, gerbil, and rabbit on it I beleive, maybe a hamster too) in the powder form; it can be sprinkled on vegetables that have been wetted down or mixed into a pellet mash.

emilyam19

Post   » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:13 pm


I think I found it (there's another that looks similar but it's in a gel form), this is the only powder version I could find: http://www.petco.com/product/106421/PetAg-Bene-Bac-Small-Ani ... Ce4Aod5GEA5g

I haven't tried this one before but I'm willing to try anything. I did try Kyo-Dophilus Probiotics Plus Enzymes and a generic acidophilus capsule from CVS. The other option is trying a poop soup (with the amount of poop shoes I've had smeared all over my arms and shirt, making some should be easy).

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Delaine
Supporter in '14

Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:07 am


He sounds like Charlie might have had a rough past. He is very lucky you found him.

It might be less stressful for Charlie to get fewer pellets everyday rather than skipping them totally for a day. It would help to keep his feeding routine more consistent. If you divide them into two feedings you can spread the pellets over a longer period of time.

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Delaine
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Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:15 am


I looked into getting Benebac for small animals but the first ingredient was Dextrose which is basically sugar. I wasn't sure I wanted sugar in my girls' probiotic.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:27 am


My guess is that they put the sugar in Benebac to tempt them to take it rather than have to force it into them. The dosage is pretty small, so I wouldn't worry too much about the amount of sugar.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:37 am


Is there Dextrose in the powder, too? I knew it was an ingredient in the gel, which I don't use for that reason.

emilyam19

Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:47 am


I could only find it listed on the Petco website (everywhere else it was the gel version).

It lists the ingredients for the powder as: Dextrose, Maltodextrin, Sodium Silico Alminate, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidum, Dried Lactobacillus Fermantum, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Dried Lactobacillus Casei, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum, Dried Pediococcus Acidilacticii.

Also does anyone know if Kaytee hay is 1st cut? I remember it being pretty tough so I'm guessing it is. Does anyone have a good recommendation for some 1st cut timothy hay? I was thinking of just buying a small bag of it and giving it to Charlie by hand. I'm not sure if leaving it in the cage is a good idea with the Skinny pig (I don't know if it could scratch her since I got a few splinters myself from Kaytee in the past).

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Delaine
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Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:12 pm


I buy my hay by the bale, but my friend orders Oxbow products. I think they may rate their hay by how course it is and mark it on the bag. You may be able to order a courser hay from Oxbow.

If you have any questions about Oxbow products you can phone them and talk to a lady by the name of Amy Chamberlin. She is the Product Development & Nutrition Specialist and is most helpful. Her number is (402)867-2400, ext. 1630.

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Delaine
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Post   » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:26 pm


I have found for myself when there is any kind of imbalance in the gut and the bad bacteria is overpowering the good bacteria sugar can feed the yeast and other harmful bacteria.

On the other hand there are studies being done in humans on the benefit of prebiotics and non-digestible food ingredients that may stimulate the growth of good bacteria.

Only my opinion based on my experience and the many articles I have read.

I just sprinkle a very small amount of Kyo-Dophilus on a small piece of lettuce leaf, fold it over and feed it to the girls so I know they are getting the dose I intended for them.

emilyam19

Post   » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:30 am


I looked at their hay selection online and went through the different kinds. They consider Oat hay to be the crunchiest variety (I suppose crunchy means more fiber?). I have a small bag of that I was using as a treat to mix in with their regular hay but I can get more and hand feed it to Charlie to make sure he eats more of it. If I’m off about how to interpret crunchy, I’ll give the nutrition specialist a call (I sent an email so I’d have any instructions in writing, I know I’ll end up forgetting otherwise).

When I was giving Charlie probiotics, I would sprinkle about half a capsule on a piece of veggie (tomato and cucumber were the easiest to coat). I tried “Kyo-Dophilus Probiotics Plus Enzymes” (is this the kind you meant or do you know of any other Kylo varieties?). I started trying it in early September after the acidophilus capsules didn’t seem to help. After a while he started to get stubborn about eating his veggie slice (I tried different veggies but for some reason he dug his heels in and would try to explore or tug at my shirt instead) and I began trying to mix the powder with a little water and syringe feeding it. He understandably did not like this and I stopped trying the probiotics since they didn’t appear to have any affect on his problem.


Today Charlie’s weight is 1310. I got excited (and a little worried) when it read 1100-and-something for a second but then I realized he had one paw off the scale. I had to temporarily suspend floor time. My washing machine is currently broken and for now I can’t clean the piggy laundry so I have nothing absorbent to put down for floor time (they won’t walk on bare hardwood or tile floors anyway). I was thinking about cutting back the pellets for all four pigs to a total of 1/3 cup daily. Is this a healthy amount to give?

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Delaine
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Post   » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:39 am


The Kyo-dophilus I use doesn't have enzymes. Each capsule contains Human strain L.acidophilus KS-13, B. bifidum G9-1, B. longum MM-2......1.5 Billion live cells per capsule.

Other ingredients: Gelatin, potato starch and silica. FREE of preservatives, sugar, sodium, milk, yeast, gluten, artificial colours and flavours.

I talked to Zoe's vet before I started giving her probiotics and she said to give just a very small sprinkle. I started out giving it to her 4 times and day and weaned her down to twice a day. I felt it was better to give a very little bit more often than a lot only once a day because their transit time is pretty fast. One capsule lasts Zoe for about 10 days or more, that is how little I give her. They only recommend one capsule once or twice a day for a human.

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Delaine
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Post   » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:50 am


On the Oxbow bag of pellets they recommend 1/8 cup per pig per day so that would be 1/2 cup per day for 4 pigs. I guess it depends how much each pig is eating. Could Charlie be getting more than his share?

I only have two sows and they eat approximately the same amount. I put 1 level tablespoon or less in each of their two dishes am and pm and quite often they don't eat them all and sometime they lick the dish clean. That amount barely covers the bottom of the little dishes.

Limiting pellets for Charlie is just one more thing to experiment with to see if it makes a difference to his stool.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 am


gl/probiotics.html

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Mapleowl18
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Post   » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:46 am


I have a male piggy who had similar impaction issues. In Robin's case great blobs of poo, not completley formed, with the occasional little bits.

I'd look closely at the veggie's you're feeding him.

I had much better luck with my male piggy that goes blobs of poo, when I switched him from carrots, cilantro, and green peppers, to carrots only and the occasional green pepper. Eliminate leafy green vegetables, like lettuce and especially cilantro. This improved Robin's poo's immensely! Cilantro was his favorite veggie. It went from having to clean him every other day to once a week, to about a week and half now. Someone else had recommended it here which gave me the idea.

For his treatment, after I do an anal sac cleaning, I give him bene bac paste from a syringe which I get from the vet. This system especially switching the veggies seems to have worked really well, and he needs anal cleaning a lot less.

A trick to putting acidelphius powder on veggies, wet them down, and then the powder will stick right to it.

I do 1/8 th a cup of pellets per day, as this is my pig who love pellets. I don't think 1333 grams is overweight, thats still under 3lbs and he's a full grown male pig. That said I would cut him back from down to 1/8 a cup of pellets or 1/4 a cup.

So eliminate those green leaf veggies and hopefully he'll start feeling better.

emilyam19

Post   » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:17 pm


After reading some descriptions of impaction that mentioned loose droppings, I have wondered whether that could be the issue –or at least part of it. I know I’m supposed to give him routine boar cleanings but I’m not sure exactly what “routine” is in this case (every few days? once a week? monthly?). Charlie is the first male I’ve had in a long time (I had one or two as a kid but unfortunately never knew about boar cleanings before). Sometimes his poop does clump up and form a mound and when it’s particularly loose a dropping can get stuck until another one behind it pushes it out.

I was looking up something about impaction yesterday and came across this image of a dropping. I once saw Charlie make one almost identical to it. I don’t know if it means anything though.

I also read (not positive where, it was a year ago when I first started researching Charlie’s problem) that carrots can be helpful with firming up loose droppings. The majority of his veggies are leafy greens (about ½) and he gets about ¼ a green bell pepper daily, so maybe that is a factor. Since the majority of what I give is some kind of leafy green, does anyone know what a serving of veggies should look like for a guinea pig if I cut out leafy greens? What would I use to take the place of the leafy greens?


The reason I worry about his weight is when I first got Charlie he weighed about 1200 grams (of course in the beginning I was free feeding pellets so that’s probably the biggest factor for his weight gain). This was when he was estimated to be around 2 ½ years old. He also seems to have love handles around the middle that the other pigs don’t (roughly above where his hips would be) and my vet mentioned she considered him overweight when she was looking at these fat deposits. I wish I could get a good comparison photo but getting him to pose isn’t easy. It doesn’t help that his long fur sort of smooths out his figure.


I didn’t realize how many kinds of Kylo-dophilus capsules there were. The kind I used were these. I’m not positive but can you tell me if the ones you used were these and if not where you got yours?

Also I heard back from Oxbow about their hay. Just in case anyone needs the info, they said they use both 1st and 2nd cut hay (though I think it’s just luck of the draw what cut is in your particular bag).

I’m not sure how much of the pellets he eats. I had them out all day for floor time and gave them their pellets then. I can’t be positive but it looks like he only eats his share. If anyone is going heavy on the pellets it’s Sonia. When Charlie and the Skinny were in a separate cage (because of their limp) they went through almost twice as much hay as the furry girls did.

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sef1268

Post   » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:09 pm


If his droppings look like those in the photo, that looks more like digestive upset to me. With impaction, you'll notice a big blob of feces in the anal sac; sometimes it's very dry and crumbly, but it can also be wet and very smelly. I haven't seen strings of poos from an impaction, like you're showing here.

emilyam19

Post   » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:14 pm


When I clean his anal sac, I don't really find much inside (there's enough to dirty several q-tips but not clumps of poop).

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Mapleowl18
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Post   » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:53 pm


When Robin gets really bad there's sometimes not that much stuck in there, because everything is coming out so fast. Its basically to mushy to get very impacted. You just find blobs and little malformed poos. I'd keep cleaning him and switch up his diet.

emilyam19

Post   » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:41 pm


How often should I be cleaning him out if this is related to impaction? Also how would I do his veggies without leafy greens (what can I put in its place that would cover nutritional needs)?

I’ve ordered some of the products recommended in this thread and as they come I’ll start observing if/how they affect his digestion issues –fingers crossed. How long do you think I should test each product before moving to the next? Two weeks? A month?

Found this after leaving the pigs alone for about 20 minutes during floor time (it wasn’t there before I left):
Image

Compared to a normal poop:
Image

Another angle (it’s definitely a weird texture):
Image

I weighed it (14 grams):
Image

After letting it sit, I weighed it again out of curiosity to see if I might get an idea of how much of it is moisture (now 7 grams); I have no idea how this might compare to normal poops though:
Image

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:28 pm


Pretty substantial! Not what I would expect (would expect being able to see individual poops mushed together).

Would you like this added permanently to your thread and maybe posted on the thread on droppings in Cavy Chat?

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