Charlie's Medical Thread

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emilyam19

Post   » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:45 pm


You can add/use whatever you think is helpful. This isn't the first one like this I've found, though they aren't too common. Usually any clumps I find do look like several clumped together -sometimes the girls' regular poops get clumped in too. He did this in about 20 minutes. It is pretty horrifying (and defeating) to find from something so small.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:09 pm


Thanks! I cropped and compressed them (though you had them pretty well compressed anyway).

emilyam19

Post   » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:35 pm


Tonight I had Charlie out for an hour or two trying to get the full dose of Bene-bac in him (I’m also keeping a journal as I work through each product). I gave him a shave around his rear to keep his droppings from getting caked in his fur and to get an idea of how the huge dropping (see above) could have occurred –was it really one dropping or multiple ones mushed together. At first I tried wiping them away because it looks uncomfortable to be sitting there like this and I felt bad for him but he gave me a dirty look when I tried.

Anyway I’m sorry about posting these but I don’t know if anything here will help give more insight. Obviously I know how to spend a Saturday night.

After doing the typical butt lift before a dropping, Charlie just had this one “hanging” there for a while.
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It looks like they just build up one after another.
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He did end up eating the last one. These all look like the same consistency as the big one but you can clearly see they are different droppings.

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Lynx
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Post   » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:16 am


Not rereading but have you had a fecal done?

emilyam19

Post   » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:37 pm


I had one fecal test done, "Intestinal parasites with giardiasis ELIS July 13; Result: Negative."

I'm not entirely sure what it means or if there's another test I should try.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:47 pm


I do believe giardia is one of those problems that you can get a positive diagnosis but not a negative one because signs are not always present in the poops (correct me if I'm wrong, any of you more knowledgeable people!).

emilyam19

Post   » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:44 pm


I think I read the same thing as well. I wasn't sure how likely it was to pass it between herd members (I couldn't find any info on that). I would imagine someone else would show symptoms though considering how everyone is in such close contact with his droppings (poop shoes, on the food dishes, etc.). I try my best to keep everyone's feet clean but they still end up stepping in droppings and cleaning off their toes (and likely ingesting some of it).

I don't have enough understanding about fecal tests to know if the one given covers just one kind of intestinal parasite or if I would need more to rule those out.

wenton5

Post   » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:03 pm


did you get a full fecal smear? A lot of parasites can sneak through the average test.

wenton5

Post   » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:23 pm


Gosh, sorry, you are feeding timothy pellets yes? I would cut out the celery tomatoe, green beans and red/green leaf lettuce. I would switch my carrot to normal carrots and cut them in quarters. I would also cut out the multi vitamin. Be sure if you are using a probiotic that it does not have dairy in it. There is also fibreplex but it sounds like he may have some inflammation. Did you get an xray? If it was me, I would just to rule out anything else. :) L

emilyam19

Post   » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:41 pm


Yes on the timothy pellets. I can play around with his veggies once I finish trying the Bene-bac (it's been tough to get him to eat the whole dose, today I had to try a few different things). I don't think I can get the powder to stick to carrots very well.

He hasn't had a multi-vitamin but I did pick them up in case someone suggested I cut out all pellets/veggies (it's the Oxbow brand). The probiotic I'm trying now is Bene-Bac and (I could easily be wrong if it's some obscure thing) I don't think there are any diary products in it. I started it June 27.

I've been thinking an x-ray wouldn't be a bad idea too. I was going to make a list of a few things I wanted to do at the vet once I finish trying out the suggested products.

wenton5

Post   » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:45 pm


Please keep us posted! :) xo L

emilyam19

Post   » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:34 pm


I definitely will. I'm keeping a log as I work through the suggestions and get feed back from the vet at the end. I'll post anything relevant in case someone else finds it helpful.

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Delaine
Supporter in '14

Post   » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:51 am


I hope you will see some patterns forming now you are keeping a log. I started documenting a year ago when Zoe started having bowel issues and have continued making daily notes.

I have noticed small things that made a big difference. Through documenting I have found that if I give the girls their daily ration of pellets at one feeding in the evening Zoe would get larger, softer stool. If I break the daily ration into two feedings morning and night she is fine. I have tried going back to one evening feeding 4 or 5 different times with the same results.

I think because the two girls are more active throughout the evening they were eating a good portion of their daily ration of pellets. Now they can only eat half the amount and have to wait until morning to get the other half. I have concluded that she can handle a small amount of pellets but too many cause digestive issues.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:26 am


A log sounds like a great idea. So hard to remember from one day to the next. A log is a much more scientific tool!

wenton5

Post   » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:19 pm


Delaine, that is really interesting.

emilyam19

Post   » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:15 pm


I hope writing things down gives some insight too. I used to keep a food journal for him in the beginning but it didn't really show any patterns. I also started to look for small animal nutrition experts or gastroenterologists (mainly at vet schools). I contacted one nutritionist so far and we're discussing what I've tried. I don't know if I'll get any answers but it can't hurt.

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GP_mum
Supporter in '13

Post   » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:27 pm


Interesting that more pellets can cause soft stools. One of my sows is eating more pellets and also been having slightly softer stools. I didn't connect the fact that she's also eating more pellets with this possibility - I have been reviewing their veg in take but so far, eveything has been the same, except for the eating of more pellets. I will now try to break up their pellet eating into more times in the evening and see if that helps my girl.

Please do keep sharing as I find this all very helpful.

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worldangel

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:49 am


I feed Benebac with the same type of syringe that I used to feed my pigs Critical Care. 1ml syringe with the ti[ cut off. Easier to feed them with that because when I push the syringe in, the Benebac will fall into inside their mouth and won't get their lips smeared, messy and oily.

My vet diagnosed one of my pigs with giardia and she was in close contact with another pig at that time. Surprisingly, the other pig was not affected at all.

emilyam19

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:25 am


I'm thinking about doing tonight's dose via syringe. I'm having a hard time getting to eat it with veggies even when I use his favorites. He always leaves about 5% behind.

I had no idea giardia could not affect a cage mate like that. I assumed at some point with all the poop shoes they'd ingest some and get sick. I'll definitely have to get him retested. Are there any other tests I should do so I cover all the bases? The only I had done was "Intestinal parasites with giardiasis ELIS" (I'm not sure exactly what that covers but it was on his form).

I also started breaking up feeding times (both pellets and veggies) yesterday.

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Delaine
Supporter in '14

Post   » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:31 pm


GP_mum

I wouldn't have picked up on something so subtle if I wasn't documenting morning and night. Also once I think something might be an issue I try it several times to be sure. There can't be any other factors such as stress from company, change in other foods, etc. or that could change the results. It is a very long process but so rewarding when you can see an improvement.

I found I have to give a level tablespoon of pellets, not a heaping one so measure each serving.

I should start a medical thread on Zoe because it was a long process lasting for about 7 months with many vet visits. It may help others with stool issues. She has had normal stools for nine months. She still can get the odd fatter, softer one, but it is only when I change something in her diet.

A lot of stool issues seem to be caused by antibiotics. I have never given my girls antibiotics and would only give them if bacteria or infection were present. Some vets seem to prescribe them as the first line of treatment without even knowing if they are needed.

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