sosumi
I am so sorry. I can only imagine how exhausted and frustrated you must be. I have only been through one minor surgery so I hope more experienced members can help you.
I am sending good wishes your way and I hope after all the wonderful care you are giving Ginger she will take a turn for the better.
Hang in there!
Ginger's Medical Thread
Thanks Talishan. Our vet said to stop the tramadol. Only gave her the one dose last night. I misspoke when I said torb. Should I continue or not? She is just a rag doll.
Thanks Crazy4me. We are giving her simethicone and put her on a vibrating pillow.
Thanks Delaine. We appreciate the good wishes!
Thanks Crazy4me. We are giving her simethicone and put her on a vibrating pillow.
Thanks Delaine. We appreciate the good wishes!
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Talishan
- You can quote me
You're doing everything you can do. The vibrating pillow may help.
If the food is going somewhere when you feed her, don't give up yet. The subcue fluids may help a great deal.
Tramadol is not as zonking as other narcotics. Rather than stop it altogether, I think if it were me I'd give her a very low dose. Then again, it may be contributing to her lethargy. Without reading back, is she still on Metacam as well?
Were you given any Reglan to use at home? (It can be given either orally or injectably -- that is, you can give it to her yourself orally if you're not comfortable doing injections.) She needs to keep stuff moving.
If the food is going somewhere when you feed her, don't give up yet. The subcue fluids may help a great deal.
Tramadol is not as zonking as other narcotics. Rather than stop it altogether, I think if it were me I'd give her a very low dose. Then again, it may be contributing to her lethargy. Without reading back, is she still on Metacam as well?
Were you given any Reglan to use at home? (It can be given either orally or injectably -- that is, you can give it to her yourself orally if you're not comfortable doing injections.) She needs to keep stuff moving.
We didn't think she'd make it through the night. In fact, she was on her side starting to "run across the rainbow bridge" this morning. But we came up with a game plan that seems to be working and we ran it by our vet for his blessing. She is far from being out of the woods and is still very weak but we are finally seeing poop after a 23 hour drought.
Sub Q every 12 hours
Meloxicam every 12 hours
Cisapride every 8 hours
Reglan every 8 hours
Tramadol every 8 hours
Stopped all ABX
Feeding 12 ml of CC every 2-3 hours on average.
Lots of pedialyte.
Placing her on a massaging pillow after every feeding for about 15 minutes. That's when it seems the most poop comes out.
We also discovered that her bloat/stasis was not entirely caused by the surgery itself but related to having it done. She crashed 72 hours after the surgery, 36 after leaving the emergency vet's.
We've had pigs for 13 years now and had to deal with severe stasis before but now we're right on top of it. This one caught us off guard because of other circumstances and we had to remember what we did way back then.
Wish us luck!
Sub Q every 12 hours
Meloxicam every 12 hours
Cisapride every 8 hours
Reglan every 8 hours
Tramadol every 8 hours
Stopped all ABX
Feeding 12 ml of CC every 2-3 hours on average.
Lots of pedialyte.
Placing her on a massaging pillow after every feeding for about 15 minutes. That's when it seems the most poop comes out.
We also discovered that her bloat/stasis was not entirely caused by the surgery itself but related to having it done. She crashed 72 hours after the surgery, 36 after leaving the emergency vet's.
We've had pigs for 13 years now and had to deal with severe stasis before but now we're right on top of it. This one caught us off guard because of other circumstances and we had to remember what we did way back then.
Wish us luck!
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Talishan
- You can quote me
"We also discovered that her bloat/stasis was not entirely caused by the surgery itself but related to having it done."
This is the better way to put it. Surgery itself does not cause stasis. Shock, anaesthesia, pain, all of these things tip them into stasis.
Guinea pigs are prey animals in the wild and shut down much more easily than carnivores (and omnivores) do when injured.
All that said, you're doing an absolutely fantastic job. You are saving this little pig's life. Keep going. Keep us posted.
Lynx/Tracis, is there a place Sosumi's treatment post above can be preserved for future reference?
This is the better way to put it. Surgery itself does not cause stasis. Shock, anaesthesia, pain, all of these things tip them into stasis.
Guinea pigs are prey animals in the wild and shut down much more easily than carnivores (and omnivores) do when injured.
All that said, you're doing an absolutely fantastic job. You are saving this little pig's life. Keep going. Keep us posted.
Lynx/Tracis, is there a place Sosumi's treatment post above can be preserved for future reference?
Thank you Delaine!
And thanks for the vote of confidence in our approach, Talishan and Lynx, by suggesting it be made a fixture on the site!
My husband's theory is that, since they are prey, animals the have a flight or shut down response. When they have the surgery and when they come home they are in flight mode and the adrenalin is still keeping them going. Then they run out of adrenalin and go into this crash and shut down. I haven't looked to see if there were any other theories on this.
She is starting to crawl now and trying to eat hay and drink water. But not successful. And when I said "run across the rainbow bridge," it was THAT run that they do, you know? Still not out of the woods and have a long way to go...
And thanks for the vote of confidence in our approach, Talishan and Lynx, by suggesting it be made a fixture on the site!
My husband's theory is that, since they are prey, animals the have a flight or shut down response. When they have the surgery and when they come home they are in flight mode and the adrenalin is still keeping them going. Then they run out of adrenalin and go into this crash and shut down. I haven't looked to see if there were any other theories on this.
She is starting to crawl now and trying to eat hay and drink water. But not successful. And when I said "run across the rainbow bridge," it was THAT run that they do, you know? Still not out of the woods and have a long way to go...
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Talishan
- You can quote me
Sosumi and Lynx -- I did a short Records forum post for Ginger. Let me know if you want anything changed:
https://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=221
https://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=221
Hi Folks, this Sosumi’s husband.
I started to write this after Talishan’s July 5th post so it isn’t a commentary on the records post. Just an update. We think the records post looks great.
Thanks Talishan, but the credit goes to Ginger. The night before, we were feeding her and she was just so bad that the food sat in her mouth and had to be removed. Any water would be exhaled out her nose along with whatever food was left in her mouth. We were lucky she didn’t aspirate. Once we saw that, we stopped and put her in her recovery cage and we decided that Ginger would tell us what she wanted in the morning. She hadn’t defecated in 23 hours. We awoke to find her on her side probably just starting that run. So we pet her while she laid there and were going to let her go.
Then we notice two small stools in her cage. She told us what she wanted! So we went into action. We snatched her up and Sosumi was forcing fluids while I drove to our regular vet’s for a sub q and to get the equipment to do the sub qs ourselves and have motility meds and pain meds injected. We told him of the game plan we came up with. He didn’t think she was going to make it. My only explanation is that all of that commotion snapped her out of it. She was a healthy pig, considering what happened, and this isn’t something that needs to be fatal. I probably should explain the “other circumstances” mentioned above that caused this dire situation. The emergency vet kept her for two days because she wasn’t eating on her own. We were told she would be syringe fed all of that time. We asked for her records when we picked her up. According to her records, she was not syringe fed at all! For two days!! I don’t want anyone to think that we let her get this bad on our own. We had a lot of help!
So the update… Ginger continues to improve. She is getting stronger. Passing a lot of stools. First large then very small and tonight getting near normal. She walks around MUCH better. Still not drinking on her own. But will eat some greens. We caught her munching a blade of hay. Her back legs still seem to be weak. We are attributing this to the surgery pain on top of the general weakness and gut pain.
When we first got her back, her cecum was large and very hard. Now it is not palpable at all. I am assuming the large stools were ones that were stuck in the cecum and the small ones were what was filling her back up and were tiny because of gas pockets.
We split their normal 2 x 4 C&C pen in half and put Ginger in there so she could be with her cage mate. They were very excited to be (almost) together again! It’s a 24/7 job for the two of us. Anyone else in this position needs to be aware of the work YOU HAVE TO DO to get to this point along with the emotional highs and lows.
I was looking at our Sara’s medical thread yesterday and came across this info and believe it should be repeated for those dealing with stasis. This is very valuable information on stasis and probably where we got most of our information embedded into our subconscious to come up with Ginger’s game plan:
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.pdf
And Sara’s thread where we got a lot of help and knowledge from forum members:
viewtopic.php?t=42585&start=0
An important note! We took Ginger to our regular vet on Sunday because she sounded congested and were worried about possible pneumonia due to being non-ambulatory. The x-rays showed her lungs were clear, however, they did show sludge in her bladder! We looked at the Critical Care ingredients and there is an awful lot of calcium in it!!! So if you have a pig that is prone to stones, proper hydration is extremely important when using Critical Care in order to keep the bladder flushed out and not form another stone. Once we are done using Critical Care on Ginger, our girls will be going on a hay only diet and adding Shi Lin Tong and probably Polycitra-K for Ginger.
I started to write this after Talishan’s July 5th post so it isn’t a commentary on the records post. Just an update. We think the records post looks great.
Thanks Talishan, but the credit goes to Ginger. The night before, we were feeding her and she was just so bad that the food sat in her mouth and had to be removed. Any water would be exhaled out her nose along with whatever food was left in her mouth. We were lucky she didn’t aspirate. Once we saw that, we stopped and put her in her recovery cage and we decided that Ginger would tell us what she wanted in the morning. She hadn’t defecated in 23 hours. We awoke to find her on her side probably just starting that run. So we pet her while she laid there and were going to let her go.
Then we notice two small stools in her cage. She told us what she wanted! So we went into action. We snatched her up and Sosumi was forcing fluids while I drove to our regular vet’s for a sub q and to get the equipment to do the sub qs ourselves and have motility meds and pain meds injected. We told him of the game plan we came up with. He didn’t think she was going to make it. My only explanation is that all of that commotion snapped her out of it. She was a healthy pig, considering what happened, and this isn’t something that needs to be fatal. I probably should explain the “other circumstances” mentioned above that caused this dire situation. The emergency vet kept her for two days because she wasn’t eating on her own. We were told she would be syringe fed all of that time. We asked for her records when we picked her up. According to her records, she was not syringe fed at all! For two days!! I don’t want anyone to think that we let her get this bad on our own. We had a lot of help!
So the update… Ginger continues to improve. She is getting stronger. Passing a lot of stools. First large then very small and tonight getting near normal. She walks around MUCH better. Still not drinking on her own. But will eat some greens. We caught her munching a blade of hay. Her back legs still seem to be weak. We are attributing this to the surgery pain on top of the general weakness and gut pain.
When we first got her back, her cecum was large and very hard. Now it is not palpable at all. I am assuming the large stools were ones that were stuck in the cecum and the small ones were what was filling her back up and were tiny because of gas pockets.
We split their normal 2 x 4 C&C pen in half and put Ginger in there so she could be with her cage mate. They were very excited to be (almost) together again! It’s a 24/7 job for the two of us. Anyone else in this position needs to be aware of the work YOU HAVE TO DO to get to this point along with the emotional highs and lows.
I was looking at our Sara’s medical thread yesterday and came across this info and believe it should be repeated for those dealing with stasis. This is very valuable information on stasis and probably where we got most of our information embedded into our subconscious to come up with Ginger’s game plan:
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.pdf
And Sara’s thread where we got a lot of help and knowledge from forum members:
viewtopic.php?t=42585&start=0
An important note! We took Ginger to our regular vet on Sunday because she sounded congested and were worried about possible pneumonia due to being non-ambulatory. The x-rays showed her lungs were clear, however, they did show sludge in her bladder! We looked at the Critical Care ingredients and there is an awful lot of calcium in it!!! So if you have a pig that is prone to stones, proper hydration is extremely important when using Critical Care in order to keep the bladder flushed out and not form another stone. Once we are done using Critical Care on Ginger, our girls will be going on a hay only diet and adding Shi Lin Tong and probably Polycitra-K for Ginger.
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