- I GAVE, dammit!
And don't feel bad, Swannie, it has been doing that to me for 2 days now.
My vet's receptionist called, said Dr. Sperlich has my message, has been swwamped, and she'll get back to me when she gets the time. Hmmmm.
I didn't see anything on necrotic tissue at the injection site, either. However, the study did mention that injections can cause localized swelling in horses. (page 3)
Yes, guinea pigs (and rabbits, too) are supposed to have "full" digestive systems at all times. Both species can be harmed if "fasted". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think both species can develop liver problems very quickly if "fasted" or "off-feed".
I should clarify that the effect of food on Ivermectin efficacy was studied with horses, hence the recommendation to dose on an empty stomach.
(Page 3)The effect of food was observed in horses. Feeding immediately after an oral administration of ivermectin resulted in the drug’s adsorption onto the food, consequently oral administration on an empty stomach is recommended.
Here are some thoughts of my own:
Even though a guinea pig's stomach should *not* become empty before dosing with oral Ivermectin, would it be better to wait for a short period of time after its administration before allowing the guinea pig to eat again? By short period of time, I mean 10 - 30 minutes or so. Would the oral Ivermectin work better then?
Or should we just allow access to hay & water after oral administration of Ivermectin?
I'm not sure if we'd want to feed the guinea pigs their "one cup of vegetables a day" directly after an oral administration of Ivermectin.
What do you think?
I'm ignoring the clinical discussion for the moment (about absorbtion and routes and full stomachs, etc.) to bring to everyone's attention something that HAS to be acknowledged.
KM was dosing orally with HORSE PASTE. So she can't possibly assert that oral Ivermectin is less effective than topical or injectable because SHE WASN"T USING THE SAME FORMULATION.
In addition, I'm STILL wondering if the study Paisley is quoting measured the efficacy of INJECTABLE Ivermectin dosed ORALLY against INJECTABLE Ivermectin dosed subcutaneously.
This is an important point, people. Am I missing the answer somewhere? I do agree that horse paste is not as effective as the injectable form.
And furthermore, Bilbrey:
So why all the silliness about not posting new unproven ideas?
Oh, geez. I just can't say what I want to about that. You're a nice person but I think that thought is dangerous. It is a big deal. Pigs die when people don't get the right information. That's why we're here.
- I GAVE, dammit!
I know there was speculation that the horse paste can't be mixed as well, or the amounts can't be perfectly mixed in the tube, but I'm not sure I agree with that. They have mixed it in a stable solution, no different than when injectable is mixed with propylene glycol.
Chary, are you saying that the right dosages of horse paste mixed with propylene glycol, and injectable ivermectin, are different?
My only thought is that we HAVE the amounts of ivermectin no matter what form you are using. We have to accept the fact that these are correct.
And what happens if you give Ivermectin straight orally, like some rescuers I know do?
I thought you meant giving Ivomec injection straight orally because the horse paste mixture doesn't work as well. The directions I have include diluting it. If you are careful, you can dose without diluting. It would be impossible to get an accurate dose using straight paste.