Jan's Toothy Smile medical thread

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:22 pm


That would be a good idea but I am somewhat confused as to how to do this. I think bpatters knows how (maybe needs to be made its own topic and then merged with one of her topics? Not positive which one to merge it with).

EDIT - it appears someone was able to accomplish this.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:51 pm



bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:09 pm


I did it.

pinta

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:11 pm


Furosemide's top dose is 10mg/kg every 24 hours. When a pig is collapsing that is the dose I give. Because Furosemide can dehydrate the pig it's important to ensure they get enough fluids by subcue or orally to compensate.

The dose for Benazepril is often too low in the textbooks. Erring badly on the side of caution. My vet was probably one of the first to treat pigs for heart issues. It was believed at the time guinea pigs did not get heart disease. Because there was absolutely no info for heart pigs (vets chronically misdiagnosed heart issues as asthma) my vet extrapolated the Benazepril dose from a cat dose. Our starting daily dose is 1mg/kg. When I took a skinny with suspected heart issues to a very pig savvy vet(my vet retired) he prescribed as per the books, .07mg. No improvement. After emailing my retired vet I upped her dose to the dose I was familiar with which was, for her weight, .3ml(2mg/ml).7mg? She started gaining weight immediately and became properly energetic. I relayed the info to the other vet who knew my retired vet and I think he's adjusted his dosages.

From my vet: We usually used at least 1 mg/kg twice daily and occas went up to 2 mg/kg, if they weren't responding and if I recall correctly. I have always felt Fortekor to be very safe in GP's tho an overdose could cause low blood pressure and a very lethargic pig.

My oldest pig is on 3mg twice a day. My vet saw her before she retired and said the pig was on the edge of heart failure As we already had her on the max dose of Benazepril the only direction to go was up or watch her die. That was at least 2 years ago and though rickety(gets a cartrophen injection for arthritis monthly) she has enough energy to come into the living room a few times a day, can climb ramps and jump into the basket. Her sister died at a young age of sudden heart failure so it's in the family. We started her on heart meds soon after her sister died.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:27 pm


Interesting! Carpenter's Formulary (5th Edition) still lists the range at 0.05-1.0 mg/kg.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:22 pm


Thanks, bpatters!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:50 pm


Any animal that is gaining weight in spite of eating only half their usual food is retaining fluid.

This is what I thought. Thankfully we go to vet tomorrow. As to dose and what's on bottle I do Not ask. All I make sure of is vets recommened dose. I high-jacked other thread in hope Pinta may answer. I am sorry.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:25 pm


Pinta you wrote on another thread
I would up the Fortekor -it has a really wide swing and we have a very senior pig on .75ccs twice a day(2mg/ml).
Joy is 7 years old and appears is retaining fluid. Joy is on 0.1ml of Benazepril 1ml equals 2mg/ml once a day Flusapex 0.2mls twice a day.

She is also on Protexin twice a day, 0.2mgs of Zantac syrup-when she goes off this(for wind) she stops eating. Meloxicam 0.3mls twice a day for pain.

She see vet tomorrow but vet admits has no idea on guinea pigs. She has posted on VIN but no-one knows guinea pigs in Australia either. Any advice before tomorrow would be great!

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:41 am


You might print Pinta's comments above and take them with you to the vet. It sounds like Joy may need to have her dosages adjusted, but ditto Lynx -- this is confusing and doesn't tell us how many milligrams of Benazepril and Flusapex she's getting:
"0.1ml of Benazepril 1ml equals 2mg/ml once a day Flusapex 0.2mls twice a day."

pinta

Post   » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:52 am


What I emailed Daisymay

I would up her to .5ml Fortekor twice a day. If improvements see if you can back off to .5ml/kg once a day(our standard maintenance dose). Take her off the Doxy If she had an infection she'd be dead by now. We had our first heart pig misdiagnosed with walking pneumonia by a top xray technician. Put her on a big dose of lasix on a hunch and the gurgling noises stopped. Our maintenance dose of lasix is 5mg/kg once a day as needed. If the lungs sound clear we stop the Lasix. If she' really full of fluids go for the top dose once a day as needed -10mg/kg.

You can tell if they are improving on Fortekor by increased appetite and activity level.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:53 pm


Just come on line so only got this now. been to vet, crackling in lungs. We decide to stay with medication we're on but up the Flusapex from 0.3mls twice a day to 0.4mls three times a day for 24 hours and see if Joy picks up.
Thanks for for advice and taking time to reply. I asked her how much Joy is getting mg/ml and she kept saying not much known about guinea pigs and heart problems not much research.

Showed her GL and your advice she is reluctant to try it as worried about kidney, liver pancreas etc if too much fluid removed especially when Joy doesn't drink water except in Critical care. Thanks again, keep you posted Weight gain in 2 weeks nearly 200grams.

Joy doesn't move much as she is blind. She eats then hides under hay. All our girls are lazy. Even the babies Jay 1 year old and Jersey 3 months old. They are too spoilt!

pinta

Post   » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:43 pm


Showed her GL and your advice she is reluctant to try it as worried about kidney, liver pancreas etc if too much fluid removed especially when Joy doesn't drink water except in Critical care.

Which is why I suggest giving a 20cc subcue about an hour after the lasix. The subcue fluids are absorbed by the body which means they don't go directly into the lungs.

Clear out the lungs. Replace the fluid lost by the rest of the body.

Print off the Heart thread for your vet. It exists because previously there was very little known about pig heart problems. Your vet can google the vets mentioned and email them for their advice.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:49 pm


Additionally important to keep her well-hydrated since you're using an NSAID.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:18 pm


I have showed her GL many times-heart page, and Jan/Joy's thread. Joy has fluid in her whole abdomen, crackling in lungs. She felt given fluid under the skin too dangerous with Joy's rapid breathing that it may stress her out.

Joy gets fed Critical Care ever 4 hours and it is watery, plus she is given water via syringe. Will try this first and see how we go. Thanks Sef and Pinta, keep you posted. So far no change, weight keeps going up. Scared Joy will explode with all the fluid she is retaining. It's around 30-50grams each day.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:20 am


Have just put cream on Joy's feet and noticed on front paw underside is a purple colour. How can I fix this? Also upping Flusapex for 24 hours had no affect. I plan to discuss with vet if we can do it longer and for sub Q's. How long for the upped dose? Want as much information as I can get before I speak with her. I showed her Pinta's post, heart page, still not convinced.

It seems here guinea pigs don't have heart problems and if they do vets turn a blind eye. Thanking replies in advance. Thankfully weather is cooler for now!

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:56 pm


Purple colored extremities can point to a circulatory/heart/arterial issue, but in this case it's hard to say without seeing it.

pinta

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:36 pm


Oxygen is always helpful when there are circulation problems. I know my vet would have given the top dose of lasix vuia injection and would have requested her to come in the next day. I have had heart pigs get the top Lasix dose 2 or 3 days in a row. I have also given a kidney pig big daily doses of lasix along with twice daily subcues. If there is fluid in the lungs you need to throw everything you have at it. The benefits of Lasix oute weigh any risks in this situation.

There is no guarantee it is the answer. Like my vet always said "they're going to die from something". It's your job to make sure they aren't suffering and have quality of life. If her lungs being full of fluid are killing her you have nothing to lose by giving a big dose of lasix. Chances are her heart will give out way before any other organs will have a chance to be permanently affected by the lasix.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:40 am


Joy got an injection of Frusemide, fluid under skin. Just weighed her and she has lost nearly 100grams. How many more if any injections should she get? Thanking in advance.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:45 am


I can't answer your question but notice furosemide can also be given orally:
https://www.marvistavet.com/furosemide.pml

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:11 pm


I can't answer your question but notice Furosemide can also be given orally:

Vet wanted to skip the medicine going through the stomach and upsetting it as has all other medication. Thanks for the reply Lynx.

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