Jan's Toothy Smile medical thread

pinta

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:20 pm


Depends on the fluid in her lungs. At this point it is usually Lasix as needed.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:29 am


I think she said dose was 5mg/ml of Frusemide yesterday with 2.5mg/ml today. Feet and ear still purple in colour.
She wants us to go from 0.3mg/mls twice a day to 0.4 3 times a day. But last time we did this it played havoc on her and her tummy and caused the scary episode.

So what we are going to do is go from 0.3mg/mls twice a day to 0.4mls twice a day for 1-2 days, then 0.3mg/mls three times a day for 2-4 days then 0.4mg/mls and see how she tolerates it.

Vet did say we would need to fiddle with it so that is what we are going to do. Thanks for reply and email Pinta. Will keep you posted!`

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:49 am


I am unable to use any needles not even sewing needles! I have a great fear of them and due to medication I have no control over my hands as they just shake out of control.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:05 pm


So what we are going to do is go from 0.3mg/mls twice a day to 0.4mls twice a day for 1-2 days, then 0.3mg/mls three times a day for 2-4 days then 0.4mg/mls and see how she tolerates it.
When you say 0.3mg/ml (which is 0.3 milligrams per milliliter), do you maybe mean that you are giving her 0.3 milligrams per kg? (that is, 0.3 mg/kg, milligrams of the drug per kilogram of weight---generally how med doses are calculated). Or, are you just filling up the syringe to the 0.3 line?

pinta

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:57 pm


What I emailed to daisymay

She goes off her food because she is dehydrated. Dehydration causes lack of appetite. Learn how to do subcues. It's the easiest way to hydrate a pig. She also needs oxygen. The vet should give her a therapeutic oxygen treatment. Her ears will be necrosing until she can get oxygen circulating thru her system. To do that she needs to get rid of the fluid around her heart and in her lungs. The only way to do this is with Lasix.

She needs 20cc/kg fluids at least once a day as long as she is on a high Lasix dose. She should be getting 10mg/kg Lasix daily until the fluid is gone from her lungs.

The purple ear is an indication she needs lasix. One of my first heart pigs lost half his ears to necrosis before we got him stabilized. Necrosis starts with a discolouration on the ear edges that gets darker and darker until the skin dies and falls off. It is the result of lack of circulation.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pm


And as I mentioned before, NSAID (Meloxicam) and dehydration are a very bad combination.

See:
http://www.guinealynx.info/subcue.html

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:29 pm


Keeping all conversations on the board helps with changes and background information.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:25 pm


Or, are you just filling up the syringe to the 0.3 line?
I am filling syringe to 0.3mls as instructed by the vet getting info from VIN website. Joy is not on any pain medication! I have no idea what strength Flusapex is mgs/mls.

She needs 20cc/kg fluids at least once a day as long as she is on a high Lasix dose. She should be getting 10mg/kg Lasix daily until the fluid is gone from her lungs.
She doesn't need sub Q's as she is being syringe fed very watery Critical Care every 4 hours and 3 X 1ml syringes of water every 4 hours. She is also getting lots of water filled veggies like cucumber and lettuce. This the vet also got from the VIN website as whilst there she allowed me to read it.

Joy is on 0.4mls Flusapex twice a day. Tomorrow 0.3mls 3 times a day. Then Friday 0.4mls 3 times a day as the vet instructed. if by Friday no improvement will go to 0.5mls 3 times a day Saturday.

Thanks for the replies Pinta, Lynx and Sef, your advice is invaluable!

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:46 pm


She needs 20cc/kg fluids at least once a day as long as she is on a high Lasix dose.
Vet gave her 3mls from 3ml syringe both times. Monday Joy was 1045grams, yesterday 942grams. Today not weighed yet. So what that is in mg/ml I have no idea! Too confusing for me!

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:38 pm


To determine the correct dose of any drug, you need to know three things:
1. The recommended dose range for that particular drug;
2. The weight of the animal (converted to kilograms);
3. The strength of the drug being administered (expressed as number of milligrams per milliliter -- "mg/ml")

Without any of those things, you can't calculate the dose. The formula is:
Recommended dose in milligrams per kilogram, multiplied by the kilogram weight of the animal, divided by the strength of the drug.

So...as an example, you previously said:
The bottle says100X10mg/ml Flusapex drops 25mls.
I asked you at the time if it was this product:
https://myvet.co.nz/cat/heart/flusapex-drops-10mg-ml-25ml-bottle.html

If this is what you were given, the product states that it contains 10mg/ml. That means that there are 10 milligrams of Flusapex in every milliliter. (The "25 mls" on the bottle simply means that's how much product is in the entire bottle; I have no idea where the "100X" came from). That's the strength of the drug being given.

Secondly, Flusapex has a wide recommended dose range of 1-10mg/kg. That means a guinea pig can get anywhere between 1 milligrams to 10 milligrams for every kilogram of weight, as the vet deems safe and appropriate.

Finally, we know that Joy's weight is roughly 942 grams or a little over 0.9 kilograms (kg).

With all three pieces of information (assuming all of it is correct), you can then calculate the dose.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
I'm basing this on a mid-range dose of Flusapex at 5mg/kg (5 milligrams per kilogram of weight):
  • Mid-range dose of 5 mg/kg multiplied by Joy's approx. weight of 0.9kg = 4.5 milligrams needed of Flusapex for her weight;
  • 4.5mg divided by 10 (the amount of Flusapex in every milliliter; 10mg/ml) = 0.45 milliliters, which is the amount you would need to have in the syringe in order to give her a dose of 4.5 milligrams.
If your vet has you dosing it at 0.3 milliliters currently and wants to ramp up to 0.4 milliliters if tolerated, that would seem to jibe with what I came up with (again, this is assuming that the strength of the drug is 10mg/ml and Joy's weight is 0.9kg).

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 am


OK that went over my head! I will weigh joy tonight usual time and will post her current weight. hoping she has lost again. last night it was 872grams when we weighed her. it says on bottle(vet put their sticker on it) constituents 10mg/ml Frusemide. Then under it to treat dogs and cats with Odema. 25mls. Yes the link you gave looks like the medication we have.

With syringe feeding every 4 hours she gets roughly 12X1ml syringes of critical care = 72 in 24 hour period and 3X1ml water = 18mls total 0f 90mls. Is that 20CC?

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:50 am


Just weighed Joy she has gained weight-925grams. A rise of 53grams. Will go to 0.4mls 3 times a day tomorrow.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:42 am


Not sure I understand your question. A milliliter (ml) is the same thing as a cubic centimeter (cc). 18 ml of something is the same as 18 cc.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:29 am


Not sure I understand your question. A milliliter (ml) is the same thing as a cubic centimeter (cc). 18 ml of something is the same as 18 cc.

Pinta said
She needs 20cc/kg fluids at least once a day as long as she is on a high Lasix dose. She should be getting 10mg/kg Lasix daily until the fluid is gone from her lungs.

I am explaining she gets roughly 72mls of Critical Care and 18mls of water in a 24 hour period. Is this the same as the 20CC Pinta said Joy should be getting or should she be getting more or less?

The Critical Care is like water as none of our pigs will eat it if thick as we have tried. So you are saying if Joy is getting 90mls a day of Critical Care and water that she is getting 90CC of fluid? That was my question.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:45 pm


If I read it correctly, what you calculated for feeding was based on a 24-hour period, though. That would mean that you're feeding every 4 hours, around the clock, to get that amount of fluids. Are you sure that's accurate?

pinta

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:36 pm


1cc=1ml

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:49 pm


I encourage everyone who has medical issues they want help with, to post on their topics when they want help rather than email other members. There are many reasons emailing members to ask questions is a bad idea. This forum is here so we can share information. Many eyes enable learning, contributing new ideas, and vetting poor advice.

Off board medical advice is not recommended.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:02 pm


Off board medical advice is not recommended.

I am sorry Lynx! Talishan was a great help with Jessie I guess it became second nature! Pinta too. It's hard when we are not in same country. It is 13:32 Thursday here and in the USA it is roughly 21:00 Wednesday.

If I read it correctly, what you calculated for feeding was based on a 24-hour period, though. That would mean that you're feeding every 4 hours, around the clock, to get that amount of fluids. Are you sure that's accurate?
Yes that is correct! She drinks NO fluid by herself so we syringe feed her fluid and food. We did this for Jessie for 5 years and Jemma and Jupiter for small amount of time. Jasmine for 8 months, Jan for 2 years and now Joy for just over 2 years!
I do 4 feeds and my husband does 2 to give me time to sleep. We feeds her EVERY 4 hours.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:43 pm


Both Talishan and Pinta are quite knowledgeable. I think due to time constraints, they are not able to post often. I am pretty sure Pinta prefers to answer questions on the board.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:01 pm


I would question why she doesn't drink any water on her own. Are you saying that the others were the same way? If so, that's not normal. Is there something wrong with your water supply or does it taste strange? Has it ever been tested? Makes me wonder if that could be a possible factor in some of the digestive issues you've had with a number of your guinea pigs.

Post Reply
371 posts