Jan's Toothy Smile medical thread

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:58 am


I am so terribly sorry you lost her, daisymay. I know how much you treasure each and every one of your guinea pigs and how much they mean to you. You have our sympathy.

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GrannyJu1
Supporter in 2018

Post   » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:21 am


I know you said not to reply, but I feel I have to.

You gave such joy to Jan (and all your furbabies) so please don't beat yourself up or feel guilty.

Know you're all in my prayers.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:20 pm


GrannyJu1 You made be laugh and I feel guilty about smiling when you said YOU GAVE SO MUCH JOY TO JAN! Jan's sister's name is Joy! Thank-you and Lynx for your replies and kind words! It is still very hard to come to terms with especially when you watch her fast heart beat and watch it get slower and slower till it beats no more! I am still crying! It seems everything we love and hold dear is taken from us and now we are too scared to love again as it hurts too much! RIP little snuggles and nipper. I will always remember us in bed where you laid on my chest with your head under my chin and when I said to you give us a kiss you would! How we miss you baby and always will! You may have been the runt but your heart was huge and so was your personality!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:10 am


Sorry Lynx for capitals! I was asking the vet questions and time is nearly up at the library. Feel free to correct it!

[Did an overall lower case on a block of caps - no time to correct it to proper capitalization but did correct the i's to I's (could do this in a block - Lynx]

Hello Carol,
If I was a good piggy mum I should have seen she was ill before that! What would cause this I know it could 100 of things, but any clarification would be helpful!
thursday bought her in to you, was told all good watch lumps in ears.

friday she didn't seem right so went to stirling, temp 40.1 heart rate 232. given baytil injection heart rate 300. I tortured the mite by singing to her-hush little baby. heart rate back to 232. over night she picked up! she4 also got fluid under skin as very dehydrated.

saturday saw nina, temp and heart rate normal. given baytril to give orally. slowly went down hill.
sunday at 3.00am feed ian said fussy. at 7.00am not eating. went down adelaide. temp 40.5 heart rate 280. given half baytril injection. and something like morthine that started with a b and ended in hine. gave her some sunday evening half syringe and she was knocked out for 8 hours. again fluid under the skin.

monday went back to stirling. temp 41.2 heart rate 280. we were force feeding her 2x1ml syringes every 4 hours,.
still not happy not happy so took her to flaxley road who said he wondered why no-one had given her injection for the pain. so gave her a chirostone (sp)injection. but we knew she was fading fast! so I cuddled her and then took her to bed with me she loved putting her head under my chin.

tuesday she went back to flaxley road, he dr james said she had 1-2 hours left. heart rate 300 temp 41.9. he said no infection maybe a tumour or brain tumour?gave her another pain injection, she squeal at the injection and that was the last time we heard from her! but limp when we left. only signs of life was her rapid heart beat beating out of her chest. we left surgery, me watching her heart and it slowly got slower and slower till just before hurling drive it stopped beating and she was gone. we both screamed out and cried. I am had to stop car as he was crying so much! but was gone before and the only thing alive was her heart?

she also had major head tilt, too heavy to lift her head and near the end couldn't stand.
what would cause this? would the others have caught it?

never had a piggy go liked this with just the heart beating but no other signs of life.
was it due to a hard knock she got when joy was chasing her and she bounced off the pen?
I know it is a long shot but was hoping for maybe some answers. was it something we did wrong? should we have picked it up sooner? was it the move? faint smell of paint? well thanks for all the help and advice on jan, just sorry it wasnt enough
we will always be grateful for everything!

no nasty comments we should have let her go. my husband lost a friend in car accident and jan was all that was keeping him going! now he is lost again!

ian and mary.

forgot to add:
yes carol I have trouble saying goodbye, I have no family and friends, I have depression, anxiety, fear of people and leaving the house(everytime I do I have to take two valiums), high bp, sleep apnea, panic attaks so my fur children are my family and friends and I lose one it is like losing a child! and it hurts bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:59 am


Like I said when Jan passed who would be next? Now it may be her sister who turn 6 on Christmas Eve. Poor Jan failed turning 6 by 4 weeks!

Jessie and Jemma passed 4 weeks apart. Jupiter and Jasmine passed 3 weeks apart. Now Jan has passed, now her sister Joy has a slight head tilt which has appeared in last few days. I noticed it but husband didn't.

Took her to vet today(Joy saw vet 9 days ago and no tilt then), Carol had trouble with the tilt as one minute she was tilted to the left then 20 seconds later she was tilted to the right.

Now I used(excuse the term) Joy as a guinea pig, I had her on Meloxicam for 7 days on a very low dose. 0.3mls any higher and it stops her eating. During this time Joy ate more and gained weight. She seemed more alert, a little brighter. Then after 7 days I took her off it, she ate less and weight went down a little. Now she is flat and not so bright. BUT if in pain she is not fluffed up. I think she is depressed she is alone. I am trying to find her a friend, but am not sure if she will accept one. Trying to get one as young as possible. Carol wants me to give Joy Meloxicam for 4 days, she how she is then stop for 4 days. Hello this is what I did! Carol examined Joy and that was it. Would have to happen with Christmas break coming!

Then like the others we are trying to get Jan taxideried. BUT the lady who did Jupiter and Jasmine is not doing it for the foreseeable future. She has not told me but either she has been affected by the chemicals she uses or she is pregnant. Hard to say. So am trying to find someone who will NOT rip us off like the lady who did Jessie and Jemma. She did NOTHING to preserve them and had the nerve to leave the skull in. So at some point we will lose them again thanks to the b*tch not doing her job properly! So wish to be careful with little Jan as she like Jessie and Jemma deserve to be done properly and treated with respect!

Jessie took ill over the Easter break, DON'T want another getting sick over the holidays! Library is closed for 2 weeks so will have to use my old laptop. It works but is slow and freezes a lot!

We are NOT doing Christmas or birthdays this year. With just the two of us and the J Tribe it is just another day! But we down under would like to wish you all a happy safe Festive Season and all the best for 2019! Thanking those who have given me help over the years too!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:47 am


Sending good wishes for Carol!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:59 am


Sending good wishes for Carol!
Lynx I might have confused you! Carol is the girls vet. All our piggies and rabbit's name start with a J.

Thanks for your reply and hoping you had a good festive season and a great 2019!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:27 am


Ah, yes, I should have read more closely!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:50 pm


Please can someone send me the following as late Christmas presents!
1. A boxing bag! As way to angry at present and full of guilt!
2. Throat soothers for when I scream!
3, Some of Samson's hair to give me strength and courage! To believe and act on my instincts.
4. A wig for when I pull my hair out!
5. A box of tissues and a shoulder to cry on!
6. A brick wall to hit my head against.
7. Some headache tablets for number 6.
8. Decent vets who know their stuff and listen to the patients owners!

Am I asking too much? The reason behind this list is I found out yesterday that Carol believes Jan passed due to a middle ear infection.

Now if this is the case why did she respond to the Baytril Injection, but NOT Baytril orally? When Jessie had ear infection Kirsty gave her Baytril ear drops!

Now 2 weeks before Jan passed I suggested to 3 vets that I believe she had ear infection. Ears were checked and I was poo pooed away!

Why am I so gullible to keep on believing and trusting these vets? Too many piggies have suffered at their hands! Too many say NO treatment for piggies! PTS get another and move on! Hence number 1.

A week after Jan passed Carol had NO idea what caused Jan too pass now she is saying ear infection! Vets here change their minds quicker than I can change underwear!

Is there something else besides Baytril for ear Infections? Jupiter, Jasmine were put on it orally in case of infection- vets could find nothing wrong with them. I suggested heart meds but heart sounded good so I was again poo pooed away. Anyway they went off their food fast even with Protexin and lost weight fast! Jupiter passed a week later and Jasmine 3 weeks later. Baytril did nothing!

Jessie when on it went off her food and lost 100grams in a matter of days which she never got back! Jan responded to Baytril injection BUT had a sort of fit when given it. She kind of jerked, went limp, shaking, temp went from 40.2 to 41.5. Heart rate 232 to 300.

Then I tortured her by singing to her-HUSH LITTLE BABY! It was like as she was looking at me intently with those sweet eyes she was hanging on my every word. Whether she liked it or was begging me to stop who knows. But in 30 mins her heart rate was 218 and temp 39.1. Next day all was normal, she looked bright, alert eating, pooping, peeing but head tilt. Given Batril orally she went down fast and was gone 3 days later!

So now I am terrified of Baytril especially given orally! Is there something else on can use? Please say there is!

Would this be genetic, contagious or old age? Jan and Joy were/are sisters, both would have and did turn 6 Christmas Eve. Both developed tummy problems, weight lost(Joy was 1000grams in August now high 700's to low 800's), head tilt same side. I mean are we doing something wrong here?

So now riddled with guilt over Jan and others to whom I trusted the vets and they suffered badly and I was too gutless to stand up for them and do more! People have told me when am I going to realise I know more than the vets? What good is that if I lack conviction and have NO way of getting medication? With Jessie I proved I knew more than the vet, but he didn't like that and forced me to sign a paper saying NO more questions or advice I was to give and that he knew more about guinea pigs than I did. If I didn't sign it he would NO longer treat Jessie.

How about someone sending me a trunk? The everyone can hop in and we will move to the UK or USA and get decent vets! It rips my heart out when they suffer at the hands of vets. Then I am riddled with guilt when I do little after seeing the vet.

What can I do? I made a complaint to veterinary board of Australia. I was told guinea pigs and all rodents are lab animals. When sick they don't want medical help. Leave them to die or PTS. They are guinea pigs and cheap and easily replaced! I tell you what else can I do? BEFORE anymore of our precious girls get ill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the long post but I needing to vent!I feel frustrated, angry and guilty and so helpless with no where to turn! Yes I can turn to GL, BUT vets wont listen and I can't get any medication to treat my girls and I lack the courage to follow my instincts!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:39 pm


Would Bactrim do the same job as Baytril for head tilt maybe ear infection? I got this of GL. Carol is insistent that Baytril is the only medication to use on guinea pigs. Jessie was on Bactrim and it was so gentle on her tummy whilst if fought of the infection it didn't affect her tummy or bowels. Joy is high 700-low 800grams.

Bactrim -- (trimethoprim sulfa; SMZ-TMP; sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim; Tribrissen, Septra)

Oral Dosage: 30 mg/kg q12h (i.e. 30mg/kg is given every 12 hours, for a total of 60 mg/kg in 24 hours) dot Calculate Dose in mg and cc

Bactrim is a commonly used human and veterinary antibiotic and generally comes in a standard suspension. Each 5.0 ml of this pediatric oral suspension (one of the drugs sometimes referred to as "the pink stuff") contains 200mg sulfamethoxazole and 40mg trimethoprim/5ml for a total of 240mg active ingredients/5ml or 48mg/cc. A dose of 0.625 cc would provide 30mg bactrim for a pig of one kilo (2.2 pounds).

It is considered by some to be the drug of choice for urinary tract infections (UTI's). Louise C. notes it is used for urinary tract, ear and lung infections and kills the following: P. carnii, E. coli, Enterobacter, Klebsiella, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus, Pseudomonas cepacia, Pasturella, Clostridia, Proteus, Salmonella, Shigella, Brucella

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:51 pm


Calm down a little.

First of all, drops in the ear do NOT treat a middle ear infection. The middle ear is behind the ear drum, and drops would never get to it. Ear drops ONLY treat outer ear infections.

Second, some medicines give different responses when injected versus given orally. When given orally, factors such as how much food is in the stomach and how well the digestive tract is functioning can affect how effective a medicine is. When injected, all the acids and enzymes in the digestive tract are bypassed, and a more effective dose may be delivered. Injected meds have their own set of problems, but in some cases they do work better.

Third, middle and inner ear infections can be very difficult to treat. There's not much blood supply to those areas, and ultimately, the bloodstream is how the medicine travels around the body. It's one of the reasons that so many kids get tubes in their ears -- there's no really good way to deliver the medicine to the inner portions of the ear, so the infections don't get adequately treated.

Fourth, there's no way to know what organism is causing an ear infection. Baytril, or any other antibiotic you can name, may or may not be effective against whatever it is. And even cage mates with ear infections may have them caused by different organisms. The vets just have to give a broad-spectrum antibiotic and hope it does the trick. Baytril usually does, and it's tolerated better by guinea pigs than many of the others, so it's a good first choice.

The problems may have been compounded by age. Antibiotics are less effective the older we get, and more likely to cause GI problems.

I'm sorry the vets weren't more supportive, but I don't see that they made major errors. They could have looked into potential heart problems a little more thoroughly, but it's rare to find even an exotic vet that knows much about heart issues in guinea pigs.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:55 pm


Baytril is more effective against gram-positive organisms, Bactrim against gram-negative. Those classifications refer to how the bacteria take up a Gram stain when plated to look at under a microscope. Gram-positive organisms are usually aerobic, while gram-negative are usually anaerobic -- they don't require air.

Gram-negative organisms are frequently found in the urinary tract, which is why Bactrim is the preferred drug of choice for UTI's. Gram-positives live where there's oxygen, hence are more often found in the respiratory tract.

So no, Bactrim is NOT better for ear infections. It's sometimes given to treat URI's in very young guinea pigs, but that's because Baytril can stunt the growth of young pigs, not because Bactrim is a better med for the treatment.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:16 am


Hello Bpatters, Thank-you for your reply! I think you would have the right to get fed up with vets as I am!

When Jan was ill and Petal way back in 2004, vets admitted they knew nothing about guinea pigs and said whats to know, you PTS get another piggy and move on! IN 15 years here vet care for guinea pigs have not changed!

We took Jan to a total of 7 vets, 2 of them refused to treat her because she was a guinea pig, 3 wanted to just PTS as she wasn't worth the time or money to treat!

I will try the Baytril BUT I won't be happy about it! You are lucky to live where you are and have a choice between decent vets!

When Jessie had ear infection Kirsty actually listened to me and we both decided on the treatment. Carol will not listen and says we will do this and that is final!

I still believe Jan was badly treated when seen, I mean the poor baby had massive head tilt, why just say take her home and watch her? It was another vet who gave the Baytril! Thanks again for your reply and insight!

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ItsaZoo

Post   » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:17 pm


I sympathize with frustrations about medical care in general. I’ve had plenty of those moments myself with my dogs. I think it should have a name like Vet Remorse or something. The problem is that at the time we have only the current problem to go on and that gets treated. Then another problem occurs and that gets treated. It’s like a puzzle. We don’t know what the puzzle looks like and we don’t have all the pieces. After everything is said done, we look back at all the symptoms and treatments and we kick ourselves (and we want to kick the vets) for not figuring it out earlier. The truth is, we would do anything to make our animals well again and sometimes there are too many complications for that to happen.

Daisymay, you made the best choices you could with the resources and information that you had. You are giving your little ones the best care you can.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:26 am


Third, middle and inner ear infections can be very difficult to treat. There's not much blood supply to those areas, and ultimately, the bloodstream is how the medicine travels around the body.
When Jan first saw Carol her head tilt was around 10%. Even I could see the head tilt which is why I suggested the ears. NO temp or heart rate checked.The following week head tilt was around 30% and still Carol claimed she could find nothing. Was told to take her home and watch her. Still no temp or heart rate checked! On both times ears were not checked.

A few days later Jan's head till was around 70%, it was like she was having trouble holding her head up. A vet who had never seen Jan before saw the head tilt. Hence the injection.

Around 3 days later Jan's head was so far tilt on the left side it wasn't far from the ground! At least with Kirsty who admitted she knew nothing about guinea pigs was willing to listen and to learn. Whilst Carol listens at times she goes on her own train of thought and never takes into consideration!

When Jan first presented problems I asked her to consult with another vet just to confirm either mine or her suspicions. She didn't feel it was in her best interest. Now that Joy has a very slight tilt she has contacted Dr Vella. Why was it poor Jan had to suffer cause she wouldn't listen to me (a) head tilt, (b) check the ears, (c) contact another vet who sees more guinea pigs than she does. I am not saying Jan would still be here but at least she may have had a chance. I am fed up losing my pigs and seeing them suffer at the hands of damn vets! Believe it or not Carol is around the best vet to go too. 6 out of 10 vets prefer PTS than treating or wasting time on a guinea pig!

You have decent vets in UK and USA here we are still in the dark ages when it comes to guinea pig care or lack there off!

Thanks for the reply ItsaZoo. May everyone have a great 2019 slaves and piggies alike!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:58 am


Has Joy been over dosed on Baytril? Just giving you an update on Joy! I knew I should have listened to myself and past experiences but no yet again I lacked in my convictions!
Before the Baytril Joy had slight head tilt but was eating and gaining weight, now after the Baytril she is not eating-well selective eating.
First I think 0.35 twice a day was/is way too much! Jessie and Jan were around 650grams they got 0.12 twice a day, Jasmine who was around 850grams got 0.7 twice a day, Thumper our rabbit who was around 1500grams he got 0.4. Joy weighs roughly on average 750grams she should have only gotten 0.15 at best! I am sure Joy has been over dosed on the stuff!
Jupiter was on Baytril, she was gone a week later, Jasmine was on Baytril, she was gone in 3 weeks, Thumper was on Baytril and was gone in 10 days. Jan was on Baytril, responded well to the Injection but once orally went down hill fast and was gone in 3 days. ALL of them lost their appetite! Now this may have Baytril OR it stirred something inside them/her?

To stimulate things have put Joy on a tenth of a tablet of Metomide twice a day instead of once a day. She is being hand fed but she looks very miserable. She lost 30graqms on Wednesday but Thursday-yesterday she only lost 4grams. We got some catgrass not much as it is not growing in this heat and this is the only thing she will eat by herself.

Only Jessie a tough little cookie fought off the Baytril! Jupiter and Jasmine passed in 2017, Thumper in 2006 and I still have their bottles of Baytril in the fridge, so I know what doses they got. I know there is a page with dose by grams but for me that is way confusing.

I hope Joy picks up soon! Could the Baytril have stirred something inside of her? like an infection and that is why she stopped eating? Or was it the Baytril itself? She got 5 doses before I took her off it, was supposed to be on it for 10 days. BUT (a) I couldn't bear to see her like that and (b) 0.35 seemed a lot for a 750gram piggy!

Any advise much appreciated as I am one worried piggy slave! She stopped the Baytril-had last dose Wednesday morning-nearly 48 hours ago. Surely it would be out of her system by now? thanking any replies in advance.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:28 pm


We can't tell anything about how much they got without knowing the strength of each dose of Baytril.

It usually comes in standard dosages, but my vet has it compounded and the strength is nothing like what most vets use. Each bottle should have something like mg/ml, or maybe a percent on it. That's the only way to know how much each got.

Baytril is notorious for killing pigs' appetites, but it's also on the few antibiotics they can take without even more serious consequences. I never give it without giving a dose of probiotics an hour or so later, and without being ready to hand feed and hydrate by syringe.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:57 pm


Joy \is on Protexin and has been for sometime! I am kicking myself for starting the Baytril! Before it she had slight head tilt but was eating and gaining weight. Now she is not eating, fluffed up and eyes sunken.

Still hand feeding but doesn't look good. She has a vet appointment for today, but will be a waste of money as they don't know what they are doing.

Keep you posted, and thanks for reply bpatters.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2019

Post   » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:19 am


Just got back from vet. Joy is off the Baytril and now on Meloxicam. It seems in the 2 weeks since seeing Carol, Joy's teeth have gone from straight to where both sides nearly touch. Nina the vet(Carol on holidays) wondered whether Joy was in pain? Incase teeth were rubbing against her tongue.

As Nina has never done a pig's teeth all going well hoping we can wait till Carol comes back on the 29th of this month.

Will keep you posted on how we go! Was looking for pictures of Jan and found 2 of Joy. In one head tilts to the right and the other to the left. Seeing as she's young in both pictures maybe she had always done it and didn't notice as (a) she has long fur and (b) we noticed after Jan had major tilt.

When get PC I will post the pictures- using very old laptop at the moment. Of to massage Joy, got her first dose of Meloxicam about 30 minutes ago. So paws crossed!

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:34 am


I don't think you can wait four weeks on a tooth trimming if they're nearly overlapping her tongue now. She won't be able to swallow.

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