Hazel's medical thread

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:48 pm


That you are managing with almost no pain meds is even more encouraging!

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Zaphy

Post   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:00 pm


Something that seems to correlate with her better days so far, in addition to the more frequent CC feedings, is to mix it up thicker. I don't recall the thread I was looking at (I think it was a recent one? Not sure though) but someone's vet had told them that watering the CC down too much can lessen the benefit of the fiber in it. I'd originally been watering it down quite a bit because there's always the concern of dehydration with diarrhea. But since that never has seemed to be a problem, I thought I'd give the thicker consistency a try. It's only been a couple days so I can't say for sure whether or not it's been a coincidence but wanted to note it here before I forget.

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Zaphy

Post   » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:40 pm


Darker/orangeish urine is not normal in older guinea pigs, right? I'm having trouble telling if Hazel's urine is pink/red tinted or just orange. Regardless, it's probably time for a trip to the vet as she also just had/is recovering from an episode of GI stasis/bloat...

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 pm


Not really. Could be something in the diet or can be a sign of dehydration, if it's orange vs. pink/red.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:39 pm


Besides reviewing diet (to check if something is causing it), you might consider increasing fluids (syringe extra water; soak a handful of hay in water [remove in an hour or two]).

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Zaphy

Post   » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:53 pm


Oxbow vitamin C tabs are the only thing she gets outside of KMS pellets and hay. She can't handle fresh veg, so no beets or anything that might color urine that way. Dehydration is a possibility, I'm sure- I've been trying to increase her access to water but perhaps directly syringing it might be better. Vet appt is this afternoon, we'll see what they say then.

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Zaphy

Post   » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:15 pm


Aaaaaaand everything's fine. And she peed at the vet's on a white towel, and it was perfectly yellow. Did an x-ray, no stones that they could see. Vet brought up the possibility of a UTI but thinks it would be better to wait and observe in the meantime instead.

I feel like I'm going crazy- this is the third time or so in the last few months that I thought something was wrong, took a guinea pig to the vet, and then it turned out everything was fine. Like at the very least I KNOW she dropped almost 100g last week, I've been weighing her daily while I stuff CC into her little shrieking face every couple hours for the last few days and while her weight has just about recovered from that, it DID happen and she has been acting really miserable in the meantime, just sitting out in a corner of the cage, not even in a hidey, hunched and poofed up, chewing holes in fleece, towels, etc... And then there was the dark urine that might have been bloody- with all of those factors, a vet trip was logical, right? I mean I guess I should be grateful that nothing seems to be wrong for the third time in a row, but goodness I'm starting to feel like the boy who cried wolf.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:08 am


Same thing often happens when your car is acting up and you take it to the mechanic. Invariably, the car runs just fine once it's up on the lift.

I think you did the absolute right thing taking her in. I'm not convinced that there's nothing wrong, though, based on what you describe. Sitting hunched up and chewing holes in odd things (when that isn't the norm) are classic signs of pain. Did the vet check teeth? Did they get a urine sample? Those would be two other things I would want investigated. I'd also want to rule out some sort of reproductive issue.

For now, continue to keep a very close eye on her and do take her back in if you continue to notice these things. Regardless of whether or not it feels like you're just being paranoid, it's always better to err on the side of caution.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:39 am


Big ditto on Sef's advice. Sounded like pain to me too. I do think it is sometimes hard to get to the bottom of things. Your observations and hand feeding with weight loss were so important.

So she is feeling better now? It is also possible she passed a stone.

As for a UTI, I think odor is also a big indicator. Note if her butt is especially stinky.

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Zaphy

Post   » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:35 pm


Well, she's holding pretty steady weight-wise on her own now. She's still showing some signs of pain, but less often/intense, and her urine looks to be pretty normal again. I compared her buttsmell to the rest of the pigs and it seems also pretty normal (the things I do for them...). The vet did check teeth, but no urine sample at this time. If she worsens again, I imagine that might be a good place to start.

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Zaphy

Post   » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm


...Hazel died last night.

This turned into a wall of text so I'm just going to mark a couple sections- first part is what happened, second is a possibly useful note, third section is a couple questions I have if anyone is able to help.

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Right before I left for a friend's house, I walked over and checked on the pigs. Hazel was in the corner litterbox, eating hay. As soon as my shadow passed over her, she started a bit and turned around, wheeking at me. She's never been able to have treats due to her dietary issues, so she never learned to beg for treats- instead when she begged like that, it was to be picked up (she'd climb up into my hands) or to get a chin scratch (she'd throw her head back and wait). I gave her a chin scratch and she purred at me. Completely normal, totally active, eating, regular poops underneath her.

I returned five hours later to find her barely responsive in a puddle of watery diarrhea, still in that corner litterbox where she was before. There was SO MUCH. It was like her entire GI tract had just emptied out in the space of that five hours, I felt her tummy, I couldn't feel ANYTHING- not even any gas. She was notably lighter. I picked her up, rinsed off her hindquarters, and tried to get some unflavored Pedialyte and some Critical Care in her. She was completely and totally uninterested in food. I managed to get a little over 1cc of Pedialyte in her before I came to the realization that she needed more than I could give her, so I took her to the emergency vet. Upon exam, they found that her temperature and heart rate were low. I hadn't weighed her since Sat, but she weighed 670g Saturday night. At the weigh-in for the exam (Sunday night), she was 580g. She perked up a little at the vet so for a short time we had some hope that she might be able to pull through, her gums were still pink and her heart rate wasn't extremely low, just on the low end. But she continued to decline, and it took me a little longer than it probably should have to come to terms with it and give the order to have her put to sleep but I did get there in the end. They tried to place an IV catheter for the euthanasia because the students they had on duty at the time were not experienced with intracardial injection, which I kind of wish they hadn't tried because they tried for a really long time, were ultimately unsuccessful and ended up doing it via intramuscular sedation/intracardial euthanasia in the end anyway, so that was a lot of stress Hazel had to go through... but I understand their reasoning and it made sense to attempt, I can't fault them for it.

***********************************************************************

It sounded like somewhat recent research so I thought it would be good to mention here, I'm not sure if it actually is or not- but the emergency doctor told me after chatting with the on-call exotics specialist that they've found that in guinea pigs, a lower body temperature like Hazel had upon admittance is associated with a significantly higher rate of death despite medical intervention. I don't have the study/ies they were citing and I'm not really feeling up to searching for it at the moment, heh- so I'm not certain on exact figures but I THINK she said it was associated with about a 50% chance of death.

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I do have a 'hindsight' question that I didn't think of at the vet's and I'm wondering if it's a general enough question that you folks here might know- something that I kind of had expected they'd try right away was to give her a subcutaneous fluid injection. I believe that they did not do that- one of the things they talked about that they'd probably do if we had chosen to attempt to stabilize her was to do IV fluids, but I opted against that since it's a lot of stress for a low likelihood of success. And they did do some things, like try to offer food, put her under a heat lamp to try to get her temp up, I believe they gave her some oxygen, etc. I had always kind of had the idea of subQ fluids as somewhat of a first line of defense thing to attempt with this sort of situation, but thinking back to another guinea pig I brought in to the emergency vet with a similar presentation and outcome, it's not something they attempted back then either. I get that IV fluids would have more of an immediate effect than subQ, but am curious if there's another reason not to do the latter in a case like this, especially towards the beginning?

Oh, and they will be doing a necropsy. For one thing, I have always been curious as to what on earth was going on in there her whole life, but also she had been sharing the cage with seven other pigs- if this is something communicable, I NEED to know. Everyone else seems fine for the time being, and Hazel didn't appear to have gotten her diarrhea anywhere apart from just that corner litterbox, which I removed from the cage immediately with Hazel when I found her. When we got back from the emergency vet, I changed the entire cage and disinfected the litterboxes with bleach, but if it's infectious then everyone else has already been well exposed regardless of anything I did after the fact. The chances of it being dietary are slim to none, and it's probably not infectious but you never know- if anyone has any insights, experience, or links that may be helpful, I would welcome them.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:06 pm


I'm am so sorry. What an ordeal. RIP, Hazel.

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