First Angel...now it's Elsie..crying when peeing.!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:17 pm


Oh, I'm sorry she is getting worse. I think if you can syringe adequate water, you should not have to give subcues (compare what you can get in to what he'd want injected). It all comes out the same way. Josephine should be able to say if there is any benefit of one over the other if you're giving the same amount of fluids.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:21 pm


I'm hoping Josephine will give her advise/opinion.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:33 pm


You have to syringe at least 40-60 mls of fluids per day. If you can do that, you can skip the SQ fluids.

I would do some bloodwork if there hasn't been any for awhile. I forgot--did this pig have any contrast studies done of the bladder and kidneys (cystogram?)? If you are doing bloodwork to monitor liver parameters, I don't see why the Metacam would be a problem. Steroids are just as much, if not more so problematic.

Have you tried consulting with UCD? I would prefer that vs. Antech. I don't have much faith in them. Why did they suggest taking out leafy greens? They didn't say anything about Ca:P ratios?

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:49 pm


"I would do some bloodwork if there hasn't been any for awhile."
-No, she's never had bloodwork done.

"I forgot--did this pig have any contrast studies done of the bladder and kidneys (cystogram?)? "
-Yes, she had contrast studies done, cystogram AND she had exploratory surgery. All results indicated inflammation.

"If you are doing bloodwork to monitor liver parameters, I don't see why the Metacam would be a problem. Steroids are just as much, if not more so problematic. "
-Not sure if you are saying its a good idea with the Metacam or not? He gave her steroids previously without doing bloodwork. If she has a problem with the liver wouldn't we know it by now?

"Have you tried consulting with UCD?"
-How can I do that?

"Why did they suggest taking out leafy greens? They didn't say anything about Ca:P ratios"
- they say gps make more than one kind of crystal and so
maybe its due to the calcium?

How come you have little faith in Antech?

It is now 18mths since I first noticed she cries when urinating.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:58 pm


I think the Metacam would be a good idea. It's much nicer for her, since she appears to be in some level of discomfort. If her liver checks out, all the better.

UCD has a CAPE (CAEP same thing). It's their exotics' dept. Your vet should be able to email or call them and discuss the case for more ideas. Very similar to what he/she has done already with Antech. Or you can have a vet post the case on VIN online for more feedback.

If the stones are due to the Ca, it's not the Ca level! It's the ratio of Ca:P. There is a ton of info on this site and the main GL care/health page on the proper ratio. It's 1.4:1 ideally in certain veggies. This doesn't exclude leafy greens, just certain ones.

I have had several brief encounters with that lab. They have been bad, so that taints my view on how professional and experienced they are. I just don't know if I would take their "expert" view on things, especially when other avenues of consults can be pursued.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:15 pm


Well I am not eliminating greens totally. Just certain ones as you say.

I'll mention UCD to my vet and see what he has to say.

I have a really bad mental block when looking at the charts of ca:p levels of foods. I wish someone could just give me a list of what would be good to feed her. Right now she's getting:

Romaine - 4 leaves/day
Canteloupe - 1pc/day
Watermelon - 2pcs/day
Carrot - small pc/every other day
Honeydew - 1 pc/day
Cucumber - 1pc/every other day
Oxbow hay pellets - unlimited
Timothy Hay-unlimited
Orange - 1 segment/every other day
Celery - on occassion
Apple - 1pc/da

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:26 pm


Do you have an accurate scale? Could you write down weighed amounts? If so, I (or someone) could use the calculating excel page and tell you where you stand right away. But we need weight in grams.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:43 pm


No, I don't have a scale. Even so, does it seem like any of the foods I give her would cause crystals in her urine??? Can you tell?

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:37 pm


Do get a small accurate scale that measures in grams. It will really help if you want to focus on diet. Greens are light and may be misrepresented in the balance. I'm sure Becky knows what I mean. The Ca:Ph ratio really does matter.

User avatar
swannie
For the love of pigs!

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:27 am


I think it might be a good idea to swap leaf lettuces in for the romaine.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:37 am


Romaine should be okay. Is that what you're saying? I have her now eating only Romaine for greens. I used to give her green leaf, chickory and escarole also.

Anyway, so far there has been no change. The poor thing cries every time she urinates.

User avatar
Pigglies

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 am


Romaine is okay.

I'm too tired to look on the list right now... but I thought chickory (if that's the same as endive?) and escarole were okay.

Is she on meloxicam yet? That's what really helps Mrs. Slipper.

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