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Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:17 am

I'm still looking for people without any pets to take the pig. But the only people I know without pets all also have weak immune systems.
From what I've been finding online, the one for swine is definitely zoonotic and so probably so is any type of strep with guinea pigs. Don't you catch it either!

I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:06 am


What else! When my "wild" pig was so sick and they thought it was pastruella, I was numb, stunned and sick to my stomach at what might be the possible consequences. It was my worst nightmare as I am sure that this is yours.

I've had no experience with this but I am so sorry that it has been so hard on you lately.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:19 am

Very funny, KM.

I moved the sow. It could be my imagination, but I think the lumps have gotten bigger in the past few hours.

Fenella wants to come up here and get her. I don't think she understands the seriousness of it. She has something like 80 pigs and can't endanger them.

Thanks, Julian. Yes this is my worst nightmare, aside from the one where all the pigs get mixed in together and start breeding. It could mean the end of this rescue.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:21 am

Damn Nikki I'm so sorry.

Hopefully this turns out to be just an abcess and not CL. I'm reading up on it right now, maybe I can contribute something helpful later.

Amy called me and I checked my pigs for lumps and didn't find anything. Perhaps a good sign.

Good luck,



Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:35 am

Rachel, glad you posted. Be extra vigilant about your pigs, as Declan traveled around in Cynthia's car for 3 hours with the ladies from Fenella. You'll want to feel all along the jaw, under the chin, underneath the ears and in the armpits. Let me know if you notice anything.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:27 am

I need to find out a few things and since I don't have my vet to talk to until next week, hopefully some of you early birds and avid researchers will throw in your two cents. I've got my hands full here trying to feed, medicate, bandage, and quarantine everyone.

1) What is the incubation period of CL? I need to find out how long I will have to quarantine all the pigs in my house to make sure that they are not affected.

2) What is the recovery time? How long should a pig with CL be on antibiotics before they are considered 'cured'? When the lumps disappear? One week after? Two weeks?

3) How can I find out if a guinea pig is a carrier?

4) The surgical option of removing the lumps encapsulated greatly reduces the chances of transmission. If we were able somehow to get that done for this sow, could she be quarantined in the same bathroom as Sebastian? His lumps have pretty much disappeared. Is he in danger of catching it again, or will he have an immunity? Is he 'cured' yet?

And more bad news. Rowan, one of the dumpster boys, developed a lump on the middle of his throat a few days ago. Despite being on Baytril for 2 weeks, it is getting bigger every day. It looks like that will have to be aspirated/removed too. And I'm not doing it, because it's right on his throat. I'm afraid I would kill him.

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Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:08 am

Charybdis, do you have a garage? Or an outside building? I have to keep my GPs in my attached garage with the door leading into the kitchen sealed off with plastic and tape due to my son's allergies and asthma.

Our weather has been in the low 90's and most days I only have to use a tall osciallating fan for them to keep them comfortable. A couple of days, I put a frozen jug in a dishpan behind the fan and that worked well to keep them cool. They haven't showed any signs of overheating at all with these measures.

Just thought it if you had a building outside, this might help you with the isolation problem.


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Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:07 am

briana d, change your book mark for this site. You put up a link using the temporary inspire address. If we ever move the forums again, it will be dead. Bookmark and you should be fine.

By the way, I don't know what I was thinking about the strep. Yes, guinea pigs can get it from us (more likely) so it is possible we could get it from them, though less likely. More proof (as if you needed any) that I don't always remember all the details.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:44 am

After all this CL-dumpster pig-mite boy fiasco is over, I think all of Chary's fosters and board members need to send her on vacation.

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Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:50 am

I think the biggest thing about figuring out the incubation is that we have to clean everything. The bacteria could be living anywhere, including the carpets etc. Once we're satisfied everything is clean and we don't pop anymore lumps it shouldn't take too long to see if it spread.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:52 am

Keep me posted on how everything goes. I got to work all day but I'll be pretty free tomorrow if you guys need my help.
Good luck at the vet.

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Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:30 pm

Something from out of left field...

Do you know if these dumpster pigs ever had hay before coming to you guys?

If not, is it at all possible they're having problems dealing with the hay and getting abcesses from the hay?

Just a (hopeful) thought.

About the only thing I can contribute is that Dr. Otten told me, when I suspected Scout and Buttercup of CL, that it was rare to spread if the lumps were intact.

So, I'm wondering if there's less of a danger with the many pigs around who weren't exposed post-aspiration?


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:11 pm

I think there is definitely less of a danger pre-aspiration. However, should the lumps become large, it is necessary to do it.

Becky, I don't know if they had hay but they began eating it immediately when I gave it to them, as sign of familiarity. But since they have been eating KM's bluegrass, I think a hay poke it probably not the thing. And Sebastian's lumps were equal in size, one under each ear. It's just too ominous.

I did find one site last night that said that S. Zooepidemicus is only an animal illness.

Many sites said that 'depopulation' (here we go again) was needed, and one said that antibiotic therapies are useless. Scary.

One reference said that it takes 7-10 days on AB to heal. But Rowan has been on Baytril for that long and his lumps are getting BIGGER.

One site said that they are no longer contagious once the abscesses have gone away.

Cindi, I live in a condo with a carport.

Amy, if you can make it, I'll be glad for the help. 33 pigs on Baytril and 14 of those needing other meds/care is a bit much.

Is that like the understatement of the year?


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:19 pm

*sigh*. I will try my best to get down there tomorrow.

As Kim stated in an email, is it possible for US to be carriers? Maybe we should bring a change of clothes?


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:30 pm

It depends on what you mean by being a carrier.

I don't want to make assertions about this since I don't have all the information. But,

If it is not zoonotic, then you can't catch it.

If a pig's abscesses haven't been opened, it is much less contagious. And only Sebastian has had his abscesses lanced.

But I don't blame you if you don't want to come.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:37 pm

I will tried to come. I'll just washmy hands carefullly. The only thing that will keep me from coming is the fact that I am working OT in the morning and not sure when I am getting off.
I will let you know.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:53 pm

From Merck Vet Manual:

Inflammation and enlargement of the cervical lymph nodes is common in guinea pigs. The causative organism is usually b-hemolytic Streptococcus zooepidemicus , although other bacteria also may cause the condition. The organisms may gain entry to the lymphatics from abrasions of the oral mucosa or from the upper respiratory tract. Clinical findings are large, often unilateral swellings or abscesses in the ventral region of the neck. Otitis media and panophthalmitis also may be associated with cervical lymphadenitis. Microscopically, there is suppuration of the cervical lymph nodes. Diagnosis is based on clinical signs and isolation and identification of the causative organism. The use of abrasive materials in feed or litter should be avoided. In addition, upper respiratory tract infections should be prevented and controlled. Affected guinea pigs should be culled, because organisms from the draining abscesses may infect others in the colony. Antibiotic therapy generally is unrewarding because of the adverse effects of many antibiotics (see above). Cephaloridine (25 mg/kg body wt, IM, daily) is reported to be effective in controlling and eliminating the disease.


Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:06 pm

Cervical Lymphadenitis (CL) or "Lumps"

Cause and zoonosis:

* Most often caused by a Lancefield Group C Streptococcus called Streptococcus zooepidemicus. This bacteria is Gram-positive. There are other bacteria that have been found to cause CL, though. A culture would need to be done to identify the bacteria causing the CL.

* One source stated that Streptococcus zooepidemicus is only an animal pathogen. However, several sources stated that Group C Streptococcus, including Streptococcus zooepidemicus, may cause disease in humans.

I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:11 pm

Paisley, you are doing great. I love that you always do the research!

OK, one more biggie. What is the incubation period? How will Chary know when she's dodged the bullet? I can't find that info anywhere, and it is hugely important.


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