Concerns for my little girl currently on antibiotics
My 3 year old Swiss teddy girl Ester is having a recurring congestion issue that has been very difficult to diagnose. I would love if you could read this post and share any thoughts or advice.
I adopted Ester last fall at 2 years old. She had lived in a cage with shavings and had never had any health issues. I have been lucky enough to have avoided any health issues with my guinea pigs in the 3 years I have been an owner. However that changed this March when Ester suddenly had what sounds like congestion. It's a wet, crackling sound that is worst when picking her up and putting her down. No eye discharge or sneezing or any other symptoms, besides being a bit less active. Eating, drinking and bathroom habits all normal. At veggie time she has always eagerly ran to me for goodies as usual.
In April she was given antibiotics, which seemed to work after 3-4 days. Then it showed up again roughly a month later, but lasted only a few days and disappeared which was strange. In June it showed up again, and she again went on antibiotics for 7 days. We had to leave on vacation for 2 weeks, when we came home she still had the congestion but again, no other symptoms. We obviously returned to the doctor where we learned this time she was running a fever (39) though lungs were clear. Again we started the antibiotics for another week. Still no change but finally a week after finishing the course of antibiotics the congestion disappeared.
She has been fine since July. Then last Monday out of the blue, she's congested again. As it did not seem acute I thought maybe it would disappear again. After a few days I took her in to the vet again (exotic vet experienced with guinea pigs) and she had a fever again (40). Again, same thing with no other symptoms, only the stuffy, crackly sound. This time they did an X-ray and a blood test. The blood test showed no anomalies. The X-ray confirmed the congestion. The vet said she recommended trying a different antibiotic. She was prescribed azithromycin, 0.9 ml twice a day.
Yesterday before I had given her the medication, when I was checking her before bed I suddenly realize she sounds completely clear. I pick her up, completely clear, no stuffiness, no sounds. I try picking her up and putting her down a few times and tipping her in different directions and she was completely clear. Woke up this morning, and it's back. It sounded a bit better, but it's there.
I am so confused! What on earth can this be? The vet has talked about some different procedures involving extracting the fluid for examination but I'm obviously very reluctant to do that. I pretty much want to avoid sedating her at all cost, unless it is life threatening.
Some additional information:
My pigs live in a very large homemade C&C in their own room indoors near a window. The living area is completely flat with a divider separating Ester and her cagemate Meek from my other 2 girls on the other side. I use fleece blankets with puppy pads underneath. Each side has a small box with shavings (8x10).
I really need some help here! Any tips or advice is much appreciated.
I adopted Ester last fall at 2 years old. She had lived in a cage with shavings and had never had any health issues. I have been lucky enough to have avoided any health issues with my guinea pigs in the 3 years I have been an owner. However that changed this March when Ester suddenly had what sounds like congestion. It's a wet, crackling sound that is worst when picking her up and putting her down. No eye discharge or sneezing or any other symptoms, besides being a bit less active. Eating, drinking and bathroom habits all normal. At veggie time she has always eagerly ran to me for goodies as usual.
In April she was given antibiotics, which seemed to work after 3-4 days. Then it showed up again roughly a month later, but lasted only a few days and disappeared which was strange. In June it showed up again, and she again went on antibiotics for 7 days. We had to leave on vacation for 2 weeks, when we came home she still had the congestion but again, no other symptoms. We obviously returned to the doctor where we learned this time she was running a fever (39) though lungs were clear. Again we started the antibiotics for another week. Still no change but finally a week after finishing the course of antibiotics the congestion disappeared.
She has been fine since July. Then last Monday out of the blue, she's congested again. As it did not seem acute I thought maybe it would disappear again. After a few days I took her in to the vet again (exotic vet experienced with guinea pigs) and she had a fever again (40). Again, same thing with no other symptoms, only the stuffy, crackly sound. This time they did an X-ray and a blood test. The blood test showed no anomalies. The X-ray confirmed the congestion. The vet said she recommended trying a different antibiotic. She was prescribed azithromycin, 0.9 ml twice a day.
Yesterday before I had given her the medication, when I was checking her before bed I suddenly realize she sounds completely clear. I pick her up, completely clear, no stuffiness, no sounds. I try picking her up and putting her down a few times and tipping her in different directions and she was completely clear. Woke up this morning, and it's back. It sounded a bit better, but it's there.
I am so confused! What on earth can this be? The vet has talked about some different procedures involving extracting the fluid for examination but I'm obviously very reluctant to do that. I pretty much want to avoid sedating her at all cost, unless it is life threatening.
Some additional information:
My pigs live in a very large homemade C&C in their own room indoors near a window. The living area is completely flat with a divider separating Ester and her cagemate Meek from my other 2 girls on the other side. I use fleece blankets with puppy pads underneath. Each side has a small box with shavings (8x10).
I really need some help here! Any tips or advice is much appreciated.
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
Have these vets check the xray for possible heart issues.
www.guinealynx.info/heart.html
www.guinealynx.info/heart.html
The results of the X-ray:
X-ray: Lateral: Dense in the cranial part of the thorax. Some density at racheal bifurcation/heart base.
Can not see heart-silhouette cranially.
DV plan: Diffuse density, can not see silhouette of the heart. More density left side.
Differential diagnoses:
-Neoplasia cranial to the heart (thymus, other)
-Abscess
Infection (bacterial, viral infection, fungal, protozoal) --- bloating indicates chronic underlying cause that flares up and, as a result, causes secondary infections that cause increased symptoms as this is something that has come and gone since May)
Systematic response to metabolic disease
-Others
Ideally, a culture test should be taken from respiratory tract, preferably a transtracheal wash that is sent for cultivation and histopathology. There may also be a nasal wash that is less invasive, but not necessarily indicated as a treatment.
If Ester's symptoms continue, a bronchodialator (theophylline) or (bromhexin) (mucus thinner) may be indicated.
Recommend to treat with azithromycin. If there is no improvement within 4 days, the owner should contact. If recovery continues treatment for 14 - 21 days, a new X-ray is recommended. If Esther does not respond, it may be a poor prognosis . Treatment with a bronchodilator may be possible for mucus removal and possibly meloxicam (to reduce swelling of the larynx and upper respiratory tract).
I had to translate it to English, so let me know if I need to clarify anything.
X-ray: Lateral: Dense in the cranial part of the thorax. Some density at racheal bifurcation/heart base.
Can not see heart-silhouette cranially.
DV plan: Diffuse density, can not see silhouette of the heart. More density left side.
Differential diagnoses:
-Neoplasia cranial to the heart (thymus, other)
-Abscess
Infection (bacterial, viral infection, fungal, protozoal) --- bloating indicates chronic underlying cause that flares up and, as a result, causes secondary infections that cause increased symptoms as this is something that has come and gone since May)
Systematic response to metabolic disease
-Others
Ideally, a culture test should be taken from respiratory tract, preferably a transtracheal wash that is sent for cultivation and histopathology. There may also be a nasal wash that is less invasive, but not necessarily indicated as a treatment.
If Ester's symptoms continue, a bronchodialator (theophylline) or (bromhexin) (mucus thinner) may be indicated.
Recommend to treat with azithromycin. If there is no improvement within 4 days, the owner should contact. If recovery continues treatment for 14 - 21 days, a new X-ray is recommended. If Esther does not respond, it may be a poor prognosis . Treatment with a bronchodilator may be possible for mucus removal and possibly meloxicam (to reduce swelling of the larynx and upper respiratory tract).
I had to translate it to English, so let me know if I need to clarify anything.
Like Lynx suggested, maybe heart disease has a part in this. You could always do a trial of an ACE inhibitor and see if that helps too.
Aminophylline and/or nebulizer therapy may help too since she is experiencing congestion.
If the antibiotics do not help then I think the culture may be useful. If the thought of a transtracheal wash worries you then maybe a nasal swab might be worth a try. The wash would be better, but it can't be the only option.
I did notice that the report lists neoplasia (abnormal cell growth) or abscess as a differential diagnosis. I'm assuming that this is due to the density on radiograph that they mention which makes it difficult to assess the heart. Is there anyway you could post the radiographs? That would be interesting to see.
In another note, I had a pig that suffered from respiratory infections for a solid 2 years. She went on doxycycline for 14 days and then had another infection 2 months later. Put her on doxycycline again which was not enough and added baytril for 21 days. Infection returned a month later. I had her radiographed and no enlarged heart was noted. The only prominent symptoms she had were weight loss and occasional "hooting" while at rest.
Did a trial on enalapril which did nothing except decrease her appetite. I put her back on the doxycycline and baytril and started nebulizing her twice a day as well as administering aminophylline. She was ok on the drugs, but once off would lose weight. I treated this girl for 2 years with antibiotics and nebulizer therapy twice a day. I saw 3 different vets and all of them basically told me that she would not get better and didn't want to touch the case any anymore.
Her hooting was still apparent while on meds, but it was positional and not constant. She finally presented one day with proptosis of a 2cm pedunculated rectal tumor via the anus. I had her euthanized and the tumor came back as a leiomyoma.
Whether or not it was that tumor or something else altogether, I am still unsure what caused her problem in the first place. We had discussed the possibility of mycoplasma, but none of my other pigs experienced it. Also wondered if maybe after a time the hooting could have been scarring in her lungs. None of the imaging showed anything like the tumor that she had.
I have known people that have had rats with mycoplasma that have lived on doxycycline their entire lives because once off of it their symptoms return.
Aminophylline and/or nebulizer therapy may help too since she is experiencing congestion.
If the antibiotics do not help then I think the culture may be useful. If the thought of a transtracheal wash worries you then maybe a nasal swab might be worth a try. The wash would be better, but it can't be the only option.
I did notice that the report lists neoplasia (abnormal cell growth) or abscess as a differential diagnosis. I'm assuming that this is due to the density on radiograph that they mention which makes it difficult to assess the heart. Is there anyway you could post the radiographs? That would be interesting to see.
In another note, I had a pig that suffered from respiratory infections for a solid 2 years. She went on doxycycline for 14 days and then had another infection 2 months later. Put her on doxycycline again which was not enough and added baytril for 21 days. Infection returned a month later. I had her radiographed and no enlarged heart was noted. The only prominent symptoms she had were weight loss and occasional "hooting" while at rest.
Did a trial on enalapril which did nothing except decrease her appetite. I put her back on the doxycycline and baytril and started nebulizing her twice a day as well as administering aminophylline. She was ok on the drugs, but once off would lose weight. I treated this girl for 2 years with antibiotics and nebulizer therapy twice a day. I saw 3 different vets and all of them basically told me that she would not get better and didn't want to touch the case any anymore.
Her hooting was still apparent while on meds, but it was positional and not constant. She finally presented one day with proptosis of a 2cm pedunculated rectal tumor via the anus. I had her euthanized and the tumor came back as a leiomyoma.
Whether or not it was that tumor or something else altogether, I am still unsure what caused her problem in the first place. We had discussed the possibility of mycoplasma, but none of my other pigs experienced it. Also wondered if maybe after a time the hooting could have been scarring in her lungs. None of the imaging showed anything like the tumor that she had.
I have known people that have had rats with mycoplasma that have lived on doxycycline their entire lives because once off of it their symptoms return.
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- You can quote me
Ditto on a trial of benazepril.
We had one pig with somewhat similar issues (bronchial scarring, and a COPD-like condition) with a similar response (sulfa trimeth rather than azithromycin in her case) who did quite well using a bronchodilator (clenbuterol, a/k/a Ventipulmin). This is a horse med and needs to be scaled way way WAY down which our vet did by weight, so the pig got a very small amount. It did help her.
She was also our first heart pig and improved within hours of her first dose of benazepril. Trial was done on clinical sign, not on x-ray showing enlargement. (This was the first vet I had been able to get to even consider the possibility of heart compromise in cavies, so it was a huge success at the time.)
We had one pig with somewhat similar issues (bronchial scarring, and a COPD-like condition) with a similar response (sulfa trimeth rather than azithromycin in her case) who did quite well using a bronchodilator (clenbuterol, a/k/a Ventipulmin). This is a horse med and needs to be scaled way way WAY down which our vet did by weight, so the pig got a very small amount. It did help her.
She was also our first heart pig and improved within hours of her first dose of benazepril. Trial was done on clinical sign, not on x-ray showing enlargement. (This was the first vet I had been able to get to even consider the possibility of heart compromise in cavies, so it was a huge success at the time.)
Thank you for your ideas!
So before I could even start Ester on the antibiotics, she suddenly was making no congestion/snuffley/crackly noises, even after picking her up and putting her down a few times. I decided to wait until the next morning to see if it would last. Next morning it was back, so I started the medicine on Sunday. Then suddenly Monday evening it was gone again and has been gone since (it is Tuesday evening). Is this a positional issue or some sort of transient symptom being caused by something else? I sometimes feel as if she has wet mucus that somehow disappears, and then a shift in position causes it to "appear" again. I am continuing the Arithromycin as prescribed and will be returning this week most likely for a check. Any input?
So before I could even start Ester on the antibiotics, she suddenly was making no congestion/snuffley/crackly noises, even after picking her up and putting her down a few times. I decided to wait until the next morning to see if it would last. Next morning it was back, so I started the medicine on Sunday. Then suddenly Monday evening it was gone again and has been gone since (it is Tuesday evening). Is this a positional issue or some sort of transient symptom being caused by something else? I sometimes feel as if she has wet mucus that somehow disappears, and then a shift in position causes it to "appear" again. I am continuing the Arithromycin as prescribed and will be returning this week most likely for a check. Any input?
My little trooper has been on a 21 day treatment of antibiotics (arithromycin). She will be finished next Saturday. I feel awful forcing the medicine down twice a day. It breaks my heart and I feel like she will become scared of me. She has already been through 2 pet visits, where she had to get one blood test, rectal temperature and X-rays, all of which she was awake for. I know the X-ray was terrifying for her, but we tried to be as gentle as possible. Has anyone else struggled with guilt over exposing their guinea pigs to all this stress due to treating an illness?
Also, I am seeing behavior that worries me. Her appetite is normal, but I notice the time she spends laying in one spot has increased. I have a webcam to monitor her and I see that she will lay in one place for upwards of an hour, whereas her cagemate is moving every 5-15 minutes. Another thing is the way she sniffs the ground so much. It's almost like she's trying to find poop to eat? It's very noticeable and not something any of my guinea pigs have done. I have a suspicion she is constipated so I'm trying to give 1ml of Fibreplex (probiotic) but it feels awful to be at her with a syringe 3 times a day.
Ester is 3 years old, and since March has had recurring URIs. Her X-rays were inconclusive besides showing something blocking the outline of her heart (possibly fluid, possibly a growth). I realize at this point there is little I can do. She does not show any acute symptoms, she is pooping (it seems less though) drinking and eating. I even saw her popcorn this morning!
Another thing was that her last weigh in was 1.18 kg (1180 g) and today she was 1.07 kg (1076 grams). Her previous weigh in was Aug. 25, about 2 weeks ago. I will be weighing her daily now.
Would love any feedback!
Also, I am seeing behavior that worries me. Her appetite is normal, but I notice the time she spends laying in one spot has increased. I have a webcam to monitor her and I see that she will lay in one place for upwards of an hour, whereas her cagemate is moving every 5-15 minutes. Another thing is the way she sniffs the ground so much. It's almost like she's trying to find poop to eat? It's very noticeable and not something any of my guinea pigs have done. I have a suspicion she is constipated so I'm trying to give 1ml of Fibreplex (probiotic) but it feels awful to be at her with a syringe 3 times a day.
Ester is 3 years old, and since March has had recurring URIs. Her X-rays were inconclusive besides showing something blocking the outline of her heart (possibly fluid, possibly a growth). I realize at this point there is little I can do. She does not show any acute symptoms, she is pooping (it seems less though) drinking and eating. I even saw her popcorn this morning!
Another thing was that her last weigh in was 1.18 kg (1180 g) and today she was 1.07 kg (1076 grams). Her previous weigh in was Aug. 25, about 2 weeks ago. I will be weighing her daily now.
Would love any feedback!
Last edited by littleladygang on Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- And got the T-shirt
Antibiotics can make a pig lethargic, or unwilling to eat. As long as she's eating and pooping normally, things are going ok.
Sick guinea pigs will often eat their own poop, or you can feed them poop soup from a healthy guinea pig. She's likely not constipated, but all pigs on antibiotics should be getting probiotics 60-90 minutes after every antibiotic dose.
Four grams is not a loss of weight. That's less than the weight of one teaspoon of water, and can easily be accounted for by how much she ate/drank/pooped/peed just before the weighings.
Sick guinea pigs will often eat their own poop, or you can feed them poop soup from a healthy guinea pig. She's likely not constipated, but all pigs on antibiotics should be getting probiotics 60-90 minutes after every antibiotic dose.
Four grams is not a loss of weight. That's less than the weight of one teaspoon of water, and can easily be accounted for by how much she ate/drank/pooped/peed just before the weighings.
Ok, I will keep up with the probiotics.
I think you might have misread, she went from 1180 to 1076 grams, which is 104 grams lost in 2 weeks.
I think you might have misread, she went from 1180 to 1076 grams, which is 104 grams lost in 2 weeks.