Hibbert's medical thread - teeth problems and possible bloat?

calico88

Post   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:39 am


Hello all,
Hibbert went to the vet last Thursday with a slowly decreasing appetite and not eating his hay and pellets, though he was eating soft foods. He was sedated and had 2 x-rays done, a blood test, and all teeth examined. He had his top and bottom incisors trimmed due to the top ones being at a painful angle, two small bladder stones removed, and was diagnosed with some bloat (likely cause he would only eat a bit of parsley, banana, and softened pellets - vet warned that banana is off the table now) and an infection that pointed to possible fatty liver disease. He was put on Metacam (pain med) for a week and chloramphenicol (antibiotic) for 2 weeks. He also got some Beta-bac.

He hasn't been able to feed himself since the vet visit a week ago. I've been syringe-feeding him daily about 40-50 cc's worth of about 75% pellet slurry and 25% Critical Care in 4-5 feedings a day. Pellets are timothy hay pellets from KMS Hayloft. For the first 2 days, he couldn't pick up food at all, which I assume is cause of the teeth trim. He's now been able to scrape pureed food off with a spoon and pick up large pieces of food to move around, but he still cannot eat on his own. He tries to tear food through the side of his mouth, which sort of works but he still has trouble getting the food into his mouth. Smaller pieces of veggies or blades of grass just fall out. If I stick a piece of hay in his mouth, he is able to eat that. His appetite seems to have gotten back to normal; he really wants food, but he can't feed himself.

The vet has been keeping in touch regularly and when I brought up his teeth troubles yesterday, he thought Hibbert might still be in pain. He has stated that Hibbert's molars looked fine and overall Hibbert's condition is a mystery as his teeth condition wasn't horrible originally. However, the Metcam has made no difference in him. We are concerned with his stool, as it has been really small the whole week, though it's coming out at a nearly normal rate. The vet recommended to see if the teeth problem will resolve on its own first, as his experience is that you can go back and forth with teeth filings and it just causes more problems.

Just a FYI, I picked a vet that was on the recommended list (Dr. Peckham of Bellaire Blvd Animal Clinic in Houston, TX).

Questions:
1. How long should it take for Hibbert to get his normal teeth back? I've read posts where pigs with completely missing or broken teeth are able to eat on their own, so I'm concerned. His bottom incisors are a little uneven, but one of them looks like it should be good enough to meet his top teeth.

2. I just learned on these forums that I should be feeding Hibbert 100cc's worth of food. However, he has maintained his weight of a little over 1200 g the whole week, and he does have that small stool problem. Is he constipated? Is it gas/bloat? I've been giving him .15 ml of simethicone once in a day and upped the amount of water I syringe in him to make sure he gets about 60 ml a day.

3. I noticed Hibbert's bottom jaw is a bit shifted to the side, and he twitches one cheek. Could it be due to the uneven bottom incisor?

Appreciate to any who reads this. I know it's long!

lawngnome78

Post   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:53 am


So sorry to hear about little Hibbert. You are doing a wonderful thing for him, caring for him so much.

If the meds that your are giving him are by mouth, I wonder if they aren't effective because of his intestinal tract not moving well enough to get them into his system? I recently experienced that with my pig and the vet ended up giving us injectable meds to help.

Have you tried a vibrating pad to put him on and a hideaway for him to be under? I made one out of a massager and blankets, I just put it face down on some blankets and let him set near it and that can help get the intestines moving.

I suppose it could still be teeth, but it sounds like he got a thorough exam.

I'm no expert; there are many people on this forum who are, and will help you, but I wanted to at least offer the little knowledge I do have.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:17 am


I encourage you to read all the pages in the teeth area. I don't know if the teeth were cut too short (www.guinealynx.info/teeth_broken.html , for example) or if there is a temporomandibular problem. Getting a second opinion would be warranted. You might ask your vet if they would be willing to get a second opinion on the xrays from a veterinary dentist experienced treating guinea pigs. The teeth pages should point you in the right direction.

I don't know about the fatty liver disease. I just learned that a deficiency in biotin can cause this condition in chickens but don't know if it would equally cause the problem in guinea pigs. How did the vet diagnose this? (what blood values, etc.)

You are doing a great job hand feeding. You might up the proportion of CC in your mix for now.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:38 am


If the incisors were slanted, he almost certainly has a problem with the molars or with the jaw.

calico88

Post   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:02 pm


@lawngnome78 - Thank you for the kind words! I didn't think about the meds not being absorbed properly. I'll ask about that the next time we're at the vet. I ordered a vibrating pillow for infants. I'll see if that helps.

@Lynx - Thanks for the link! I'll see if the vet is ok with sending out the x-rays. That's a good idea. The vet told me yesterday that feeding Hibbert will help resolve the fatty liver disease issue. I'm not exactly sure what it is either, but the vet diagnosed it from a higher than normal level of A.T.L from Hibbert's blood test. Unfortunately I don't know what that stands for, but the vet said it indicated an infection, most likely from the liver. If I remember, I'll ask during the next vet visit. I really appreciate the encouraging words about hand feeding! I'm a tired piggie mom from doing the hand-feeding several hours a day and sleeping less so Hibbert doesn't have to wait long overnight until breakfast, but at least Hibbert is thriving despite not eating on his own.

@bpatters - It's hard to figure out what the real issue is, but hopefully the vet can finally find something with the next vet visit tomorrow. Thanks!

calico88

Post   » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:44 am


Hibbert got another vet visit yesterday. Good news is that he's making progress. His appetite is excellent and the vet noted that this time, Hibbert's mouth was cleared of food, which means he's not having trouble swallowing. The vet noted that last time, Hibbert still had a lot of food in his mouth despite fasting for some time (as requested by the vet to see his molars easier). Vet said some issue with Hibbert's molars was the original problem, and possibly some internal issue as well. The original problem appears to be out of the way.

Now it's to help Hibbert with his teeth so he can eat on his own. Vet said that his molars are too tall, which is causing Hibbert to have his mouth hang open and preventing him from eating on his own properly, despite his incisors growing back. This explanation makes a lot of sense, as I've noticed that Hibbert will have a squeaking or louder crunching sound sometimes when I make him eat a strand of hay. Vet explained that molars can be filed down, but it is a risky procedure as gpig's mouths are so small, and you're going in there with a diamond drill bit to try to level out tiny teeth. The best action right now is to try to get Hibbert to level down his molars on his own. I have been feeding in individual strands of hay into Hibbert to get used to eating tougher material (as he's been eating the pellet slurry), and the vet recommended that I keep doing that as that will work the molars a lot. Vet also trimmed his incisors a bit to force Hibbert to use his molars more. Now it's another week of hand-feeding, but this time trying to work hay into Hibbert while syringe-feeding. This will be a slow process...

So @bpatters- you guessed right!

@Lynx - I forgot to ask about A.T.L., whoops. As for the slurry, the vet said a good timothy pellet and CC are practically the same nutritional content, which I confirmed with the nutritional labels, so nutrition-wise, it doesn't matter what proportion I mix. I'm putting in more pellet slurry cause Hibbert hates CC, but I put in some CC fine grind anyway cause it makes the slurry easier to work with.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:02 am


Have you read EVERYTHING on the teeth pages?
www.guinealynx.info/teeth.html

It is also possible the roots are elongated. A chin sling could help but ONLY if the molars are brought down to the level they should be. Examine all the pictures in the teeth section, esp. the illustrations. Make sure the vet has taken proper dental xrays and still consider getting a second opinion.

I strongly suggest seeing a veterinary dentist who has dealt successfully with guinea pigs. Note the link to the The Academy of Veterinary Dentistry page.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:24 pm


You need a new vet. I don't care what kind of recommendation the one you've got has, I wouldn't take my pig back to him.

You don't "fast" a guinea pig for a vet to be able to see the teeth. In fact, I can't think of a single reason why one shouldn't be fasted unless it has a intestinal obstruction. And the incisors don't keep the molars from working -- it's the grinding action of the molars that keeps the incisors ground down.

The best exotic vets in Houston are at Gulf Coast Veterinary Hospital. I use Dr. Dan Jordan at Animal Medical Center of the Village. I don't know whether he has exotic dental experience or not, but I' ve been perfectly satisfied with him otherwise.

calico88

Post   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:31 am


@Lynx - I did read everything, but it's taking time for me to figure out what information is useful. Sorry, I've been flooded with guinea pig medical info for over the past week, so I'm now having a hard time deciphering what I need. I did make contact for the chin sling. I did check out the Vet Dentistry page. Unfortunately the closest for small animals would be about 5 hours away.

@bpatters- I considered your feedback and decided that Hibbert does need to be seen by a *third* vet (the first vet was nice, but didn't do anything at all). I'm looking around at all my options and making calls.

Thanks all. It's been a long and stressful 2 weeks, with 4 vet visits, lots of $$$, and having to syringe-feed regularly. Lots of tears cause I don't know how this is going to end. Hibbert is fortunately generally still happy but he's got to eat on his own. Sorry for a bit of a rant.

A note, I just learned about a ECM specialty for vets. Perhaps putting a note about this in the vet list section could help people find a good vet for their pigs, which has been absolutely difficult for me. Here's a link: https://www.aemv.org/index.php/abvp-ecm ... on-process. Who do I go to with that suggestion?

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:48 am


As I understand it, that certification has nothing to do with the treatment of animals.

lawngnome78

Post   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:25 pm


Calico,
Hang in there, dear. I'm sorry your and Hibbert are struggling. I know how stressful and consuming it can be to try to make sure to do the right thing. It can make your head spin!
I hate that there aren't as many vets who are as educated and experienced with our pigs as there are cat and dog doctors in this country. They give us so much love and are just as important as other pets.
Keep feeding the guy and watching his poops, make sure he gets enough water and take it one day at a time! We are here for you! You got this!

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:15 pm


I understand your worry and tears. Teeth issues can be difficult to treat - and we are here, on the internet -- we can't see your guinea pig and are not veterinarians. So we are only speaking from what we know. You have our sympathy.

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