I'm worried about Rosie.

Post Reply
pinta

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:26 am


Probably Meloxicam would be better. Ours dispenses in single drops so I don't know the actual dose.

I don't know how much success you would have in getting the pus up a needle. It would have to be wide gauge. A shunt is not that big a deal - the ones we've had done are just a bit of latex or rubber tubing stitched into the wound. They just keep the wound open so you can keep flushing it.

I do think you need to switch to a different AB. Evidently, the Bactrim isn't doing anything. In an ideal world, you'd wait 3 days with no ABs so you could culture the pus but you may not have the luxury of time.

Has he been on Baytril yet?

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:32 am


Yes, he is on Baytril now. He was switched to Baytril this past Friday. The abcess continues to grow, despite the Baytril.

I found an ER vet who doesn't know anything about Guinea Pigs but is willing to take a look at him. I will have to trust her knowledge of abcesses - If she thinks it needs to be drained, she will try and drain it. If she says I'm overreacting and it's ok at least I will have some peace of mind.

They have no idea what to do with medications and asked me to print out the meds page here and bring it in. I think I might can get Rimadyl; they don't seem to have heard of Meloxicam. The only thing I am worried about is that MY vet won't give him Rimadyl because she is worried he might have liver disease. Will it be harmful to him, if he DOES have liver disease, to get Rimadyl for two days or so until we can get back to my regular vet?
Last edited by Paravati on Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:34 am


And the needle that my vet uses to drain his abcess is the same kind I use for subcues - It has a pink tip and is the next size up from a butterfly needle, I believe. The first time the abcess was drained I believe they got 3ml of fluid out of it (it filled up one of those bigger 3 cc syringes). The same when it was drained today. Now, I think it's probably got at least 2ml of pus in it, unless I am mistaken about the puffiness of it. It just FEELS like there's liquid in there. That means it needs draining, right?

(we're printing out all 14 pages of the meds sheet before going to the ER)

pinta

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:37 am


Meloxicam is also Metacam. Torb is a nartcotic painkiller that will probably make him groggy.

Th ER vet would know if the Rimadyl is safe for a couple of days.

Ask the ER vet about Chloramphenicol or Doxy.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:25 am


We just got back. The ER vet was not able to withdraw much of anything from Rosie's abcess. She got some stinky blackish red fluid, but no pus. She tried in two different spots.

She was out of both Meloxicam and Chloramphenicol. She didn't want to give Rimadyl because of the liver damage possibility. She felt that he would be ok until Friday when we could take him back to my regular vet, and said her Chloramphenicol had already been ordered and would be in by then if I wanted to come pick some up at that time. She didn't think the abcess was in danger of rupturing or anything before Friday.

She gave me some butterfly needles in case I needed to give him a subcue while we were out of town. I'm packing a bunch of supplies for the day just in case I need anything - Nolvasan, syringes, subcue stuff, etc.

I do feel better that a qualified person looked at the abcess but I wish there was more we could do for him. It sucks having to wait like this, knowing he's in pain.

Thanks for your help, Pinta.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:16 pm


Rosie's blind eye appears to be sinking into his skull. Does anybody have any experience with this? It looks like it's shrinking or something, leaving the outer lids too loose and flappy. He's still not eating much and I'm going to the vet tomorrow morning for some dental XRays to see if we can nail down what's really going wrong. I am worried that possibly his roots are elongated. But the blind eye sinking into his skull really worries me. The abcess, the eye... I think he might be dying, and I'm scared. Is there anything else I can do for him tonight?

User avatar
salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:20 pm


Feed him, give him subcues, snuggle him. Can you have his eye removed tomorrow? It might be dying. Can you flush the abscess at all?

glade
Even Republicans Give!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:25 pm


Hug him tight!
Rosie will be in my thoughts tonight...i

pinta

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:31 pm


I don't know of the Chloramphenicol would help but it could be worth a shot.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:34 pm


He got a subcue today. He ate some watermelon and some veggies I shredded up really fine today for his Thanksgiving Dinner, but he's refusing Critical Care for the first time in about a month. He usually loves the stuff. He went with me in a Tupperware I'm Sick house to the family dinner and everybody fussed over him. My uncle even helped me hold him so he could get his subcue.

This is just killing me, because I don't feel like he's "given up" yet. He still purrs at me when I walk by, and gives me little nose-kisses. He just seems tired all the time now, and lays around a lot, and doesn't want to eat. But he perks up when I come to pet him. I just don't know what else to do.

The abcess is not open. It has been drained several times by inserting a needle, an aspiration really. Nobody seems to think that Rosie would survive being put to sleep for a drain to be put in. The Baytril doesn't seem to be working.

I talked to Charybdis last night and she gave me some good advice about going for some dental rads. If he's got a condition like really bad elongated roots, there might not be much we can do anyway. If it really only is an abcessed root because of the split incisor, at least we will know that's what it is and we can decide at that point what to do about it. From what I understand, they have to excise the jaw, right? Go in from underneath to pull the tooth and root out? I am just so scared.

Rosie has managed to really creep into my heart this last month, the little bastard. I will just absolutely not be able to stand it if I can't pull him out of this. I just won't.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:30 pm


Just make sure he is well hydrated. I hope you get some encouraging information tomorrow.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:49 pm


He seems a bit better now. We have been home for a while, about two and a half hours I guess. I think he is happy to be home. He's drinking out of his water bottle and trying to eat some hay. Perhaps being someplace else stressed him out. I finally noticed (duh, me) that there were no poops in his I'm Sick cage so he got some Simethicone and Lactulose. I think he feels better after the meds even though he hasn't started pooping again. I have been so worried about his abcess I didn't think to check to see if he was bloated. He hasn't had bloat issues in a while. Can Baytril make a pig get bloated? I seem to remember hearing something about Baytril and somebody's pig getting constipated??

User avatar
salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:32 pm


It can mess up their gut bacteria, so it could certainly cause gas and make him stop wanting to eat.

pinta

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:52 pm


I am not familiar with Baytril causing gas. This is something more likely to be tied into ABs that are unsafe for pigs.

Baytril can depress the appetite and if the pig is intolerant to it it can cause lethargy and sometimes diarrhea.

A sudden change in diet or motility problems are usually the culprits behind gas.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:22 am


He's eating on his own again. CC, veggies, hay, and drinking from the water bottle. I've seen him reach under himself sometimes as many as six or seven times in a row to eat his poops. I think he must have been irate becase we weren't home, or something. Maybe he hates Thanksgiving..

We are still going to the vet this morning.. I'll post an update when i know more what's going on. Thanks everybody.

Charybdis

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:48 pm


That's good news, Para. Let us know what the vet says.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:56 pm


We went to the vet today. This is the vet I don't like to go to because they charge me outrageous amounts of money and make me wait like four hours to get something like a dental X-Ray done. Sigh.

They did skull X-Rays, two views. What they said is that the mass is not related to the teeth at all, and does not involve the jaw or any bone. That it's all soft-tissue. That it needs to be removed immediately, but that the prognosis is "guarded" since he is already so old and infirm. They wouldn't give me better than 50/50 odds that he would wake up or survive the surgery.

If we don't get the mass removed it could rupture internally, release itself to his bloodstream, and kill him. They don't want to drain it or aspirate it for this reason (they said). So no drain, no flushing, no opening of it is possible. The surgery vet is available to remove the mass tomorrow and they will go in under the jaw and excise the entire thing out. After that, they said they can send it off to a lab at UGA to find out what it is. But they wouldn't even aspirate it to see if they could see any bacteria or anything because it was "dangerous".

They don't want to change the antibiotics. They said that the abcess is likely confined to itself and that there is no blood flow to it, meaning that no matter what antibiotic we give it's not reaching the area to kill the infection. So he's to remain on the Baytril.

They did give me some Reglan, and when I asked about pain meds they gave me a prescription for:

Pediatric Acetaminophen Syrup. Give 1 mg/ml to drinking water once daily as needed for pain.


I am shocked. I am now wondering if this vet knows what they are doing at all. Is this safe? I didn't think you could give acetaminophen to pigs long-term, and certainly not to one with suspected liver problems. And CERTAINLY not in the drinking water???

I did allow them to take blood for bloodwork. I want to collect as much information as I can before I decide to do.

After I was told to put meds in the drinking water, I stole the X-Rays off the light board and took Rosie and left. Here are the X-Rays. I hope somebody else can confirm this. My vet is busy today and can't do a second opinion. I scheduled an appointment to have the mass removed tomorrow but I don't know if I'm going to keep it. I am just miserable, and don't know what the best thing to do is.
Last edited by Paravati on Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pinta

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:00 pm


Can't see any xrays but Josephine would be the one to ask about reading them.

I thought Rosie wasn't as old as everyone thought?

I would push to see your regular vet.

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:03 pm


I'm working on getting the X-rays up now.. Taking a while to upload to the site. Gimme a few minutes.

Rosie is supposedly over four, and possibly as old as 5 or 6.

pinta

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:18 pm


4 isn't that old. I've had pigs over 5 years old go thru major surgery successfully.

If the mass is easily accessible it may not be too risky. The pain meds in the drinking water is wrong tho. Could this vet not just ask your regular vet about pain meds? I also don't see why he wouldn't want to change ABs. It seems clear the Baytril isn't doing the job.

Post Reply
206 posts