I'm worried about Rosie.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:58 pm

The smelling bad part was all over him, not just in the mouth or his breath. His entire body, skin to hair to head to butt, smelled like he'd been laying in people or dog feces for two weeks. The smell didn't even go away after I bathed him twice and sprayed smell-good skin therapy stuff on him. Right now instead of smelling like crap, he reeks of Critical Care. I've never had another pig (except for maybe a newborn pup) who smelled like this before. He seems to smell like whatever he eats.

My vet did not take an X-Ray, but looked through an otoscope at the teeth. She had to remove bits of veggies (where he'd tried to eat them but couldn't, and they got stuck) that were sitting in there rotting before she could even get to look at the molars. I am going to call them tomorrow and make sure that they know I want them to do an X-Ray before they do the surgery. If for nothing than my own peace of mind. I want to SEE his teeth, before and after.

I think she's hesitant to give pain meds to a pig who might have a liver or kidney problem. I will ask her for some Rimadyl or Meloxicam but I don't know if she will give it. I haven't ever had success asking her for pain meds. But then again, I've never had a pig sick enough or in pain enough to need them. Every time I've asked, freaking out about this or that possible ailment, she has asked me to wait and see, or to try something else first before giving me the pain meds, and she has always been right. But this time I am hoping it will be different. She even admitted in front of me that he wasn't eating "because it was so painful."

Rosie seems to be passing some sporadic gas. He hangs out in my bathrobe (the outer fold) while I'm kicking it around the house and I have to say, he can be a stinker. It just comes wafting right up my nostrils each time. But if he's passing it, it means that he's not bloated, right?

He's eating a lot of handfed food, as well as nibbling on his veggies, pellets, and hay. He is also drinking out of the water bottle - 30 ml's today that I know of. He eats an amazing 20-25 cc's of Critical Care/Pellet Mash at a time now. He will eat and eat and eat and then pass out chewing. I know he's done when his head hits my thighs with a solid --thunk--. He's eaten an entire large baby food jar (I think it said 90 grams on the bottle before the label was taken off) full of the mix just today. Hungry boy. We're already starting to notice a difference in his body. He feels more "meaty" around the hindquarters.

It's funny - For being such a sick pig a few days ago with an "I don't want to live, just let me sit here and die" attitude... I don't think I've ever seen him happier than he is right now. He loves all the attention he gets, he loves being carried around everywhere, and he doesn't even really mind the subcues. He jumps once when the needle goes in and then sits there making sort of happy noises while I'm doing the deed.

After he gets his subcue I lay flat on my back on the couch, tuck him in between my breasts, and pull the blanket up over us so the top of it lines up with the tip of his nose. He is one of those pigs who doesn't mind laying his face up against you, or you kissing on his nose or ears. He doesn't pull away. He lays his face up against me and falls asleep purring. I fall asleep counting purrs. When I wake up and go to put him back I swear he's offended.

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E's Moriarity

Post   » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:28 pm

Good luck Para. Your last post is worrying and heartwarming at the same time. He's a lucky old geezer.

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Post   » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:37 pm

Tell her that top veterinary dentists prescribe pain killers after working on teeth (Pinta's vet). She has to understand it is important. Is meloxicam hard on the liver? There should be something that would help.

I hope the work on the teeth is successful.


Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:42 am

Wow, that's amazing that Rosie eats that much of your CC mix at a time. You must make it extra-delicious, Para! I sure hope his tooth surgery goes okay tomorrow, and that he's able to eat more on his own soon after. Having been through a number of tooth planings with my pigs, I, too would recommend pain meds. My fellas really seemed out of it. Good luck, I'll be checking in tomorrow to see how he did!

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GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:21 am

If I had mouth ulcers, nasty infections, and major dental work, I would certainly want painkillers.

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Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:51 am

The only things that wouldn't really affect the liver as much would be things like Torb, I believe. It's early in the morning, though, and I could be wrong.

His eating so well, though, says that even if he IS in much pain, he's so hungry, he doesn't care.

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I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:07 am

Rosie sounds like such a sweetheart! I hope his dental work goes well.

I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:20 am

I was going to suggest Torb also, if the vet won't go for Meloxicam or Rimadyl.
You are doing great, Para. It is so much stress and so time consuming with a critically ill pig. And you got the subque down to a science! Good for you.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:27 pm

He was doing so well. Now I'm not so sure.

I gave him a subcue last night and he absorbed it in less than three hours (12 cc's). I was going to give him another tonight and see how fast he absorbed it. I can't get his penis to extrude so I think he is already dehydrated.

I just picked him up for his lunchtime feeding. He reeks of feces, really smelly feces, not guinea pig poops (which doesn't really smell that bad to me). He has some poop on his anal area and some even looks like it's stuck on his sheath. I tried cleaning him up as best as I could and I got feces all over me - hands, shirt, everywhere.

To recap, he has been getting Bactrim q12h for the mouth ulcerations and the URI symptoms, a subcue as needed (every 12 or 24 hours), Critical Care pellet mash (Pellets, CC, Pedialyte, peach baby food, baby rice meal, healthy pig poops) that he's taking in huge amounts (sometimes 12 cc's a sitting, sometimes 20 cc's), Bene-Bac gel an hour after the Bactrim, Pedliayte in the water bottle, and as many pellets, fresh veggies, and stalks of hay as he wants (those are unlimited but he doesn't eat much). Last night he ate more veggies on his own than he has the entire time he's been sick: Dill, parsley, kale, romaine, carrots, and dandy greens.

He is scheduled for teeth planing Thursday.

There are almost no poops in his cage today. The ones that are there are large unformed, very soft and mushy. They stink. He was eating his poops yesterday and they looked a lot better then than they do now.

His stomach felt tight to me. I tapped it and it made a thunky hollow sound. I massaged his stomach for 20 minutes with my fingers (producing more soft poop) and now it doesn't sound as thunky. He was passing audible smelly gas yesterday, but I have not heard (or smelled) any today. His stomach makes gurgly sounds.

He is laying in my lap, shivering.

I called the vet and they told me to come get some medicine. I spoke with the accountant who does not know anything about gp meds and he kept calling what I was coming to get "Lactose" but I doubt that's right. I am on the way up there to get some meds.

Somebody please tell me what to do. I thought he was getting better.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:37 pm

I have Gas-X here for "gas and bloating".

It contains (active) 125 mg Simethicone
(inactive) D&C yellow #10, FD&C Blue 1, FD&C Red 40, gelatin, glycerin, peppermint oil, purified water, sorbitol, and titanium dioxide.

Would this be safe to give Rosie for his gas? How much of a dose?

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Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:06 pm

It would probably work. Check the medications page for a child sized dose. I would try to warm somehow him gentley. You don't want him to shiver.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:12 pm

Lactulose. What is this medication? What is it for? Everybody was in surgery when I went up there just now and I don't think I've ever heard of it.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:17 pm

Ok, so it's a laxative. He already HAS soft mushy poops, but he's not pooping a lot. Will this drug help or hurt him? Can I use this drug Lactulose in combination with Simethicone for his gas? I need to up his SQ fluids, right? Twice daily? Argh, this is so frustrating, I know NOTHING about bloat..

If bloat is caused by lack of fiber, can I up my Critical Care content in the mush I'm giving him and get more fiber into him that way? Is there any other way to get fiber into a pig that's not eating hay? Should I hold off on feeding him while he's bloated?

The Simethicone I have comes in a softgel. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a pig-sized dose out of the softgel? Rosie weighs 797 grams. The softgells are 125 mg apiece.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:26 pm

My mother has a prescription for 10 mg Reglan. She has offered to give me some if it will help Rosie.

I need any suggestions you guys can give me on doseages and how to make a dose from an adult dose, because i'm an idiot and I'm worried and can't think straight. I haven't given Rosie ANY medication yet until I hear back from you on what's safe. Please. I am scared to give him a laxative as he's already dehydrated and I can't give him a subcue alone.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:39 pm

My Angel was dosed at .7cc twice per day when she was given Reglan. She weighs 2.8lbs.

Hope that helps.



Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:44 pm

10mg? Pills? Suspension? What's the concentration?

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Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:46 pm


First, before you do anything else.....
1) put your hands on the table
2) close your eyes
3) inhale as deeply as possible, hold breath a few seconds
4)now exhale
5) repeat steps 3 & 4 until you feel your mind slow down and you thoughts stop racing so much

Someone more experienced with pig meds will be along soon. But, the info won't do any good if you are not thinking clearly due to excessive agitation. And, Rosie will pick up on how you are feeling.

Having a critically ill pig sucks extremely.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:52 pm

Evangeline, the Reglan my mother has is a 10 mg pill. I would have to crush up a half or a fourth and suspend it in something to get a lower dose.

The Simethicone is 150 mg gelcaps. I am on the phone with a human pharmacy to find out what the concentration is and the pediatric dose is, so I can approximate what a guinea pig should get.

The Lactulose I am afraid to give is .2ml orally q12h. I have 3 ml of it. I do not know the concentration.

Thanks everyone for trying to help me. I'm just concerned.

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I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:57 pm

The pharmacist has something call Malacon, which is infant Simethicone liquid. The usual dose for an infant is 20 mg, so if I give 10 mg to Rosie would that be ok? I can head out to the Pharmacy right now.

I called the vet about the Lactulose. They said that it is a motility drug that also works as a Laxative. That if he has a bunch of poops inside him that aren't coming out (very likely as he's eaten almost 140 mg of CC mash in the last 24 hours, plus 1/3 cup of pellets and 1 cup of veggies) that it will make him poop, and might dehydrate him.

We're going to do a subcue and give him the Lactulose and go out and get some of the Simethicone for infants.

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Post   » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:46 pm

Yes, 10 mg will be fine regarding the simethicone. The dose for reglan in mg/kg is on the meds page.


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