Bladder Stone study

TwoWhitePiggies

Post   » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:54 am


I hate stones, too.

I think the hard part of this study IS the variables. You could do a study of only stone pigs in Emporia, Kansas, and you would still have to contend with diet, water (bottled, tap, well), cage size, bedding, genetics, etc.

When I was expressing my frustrations to my local vet, who (until us) had never really dealt with stones in guinea pigs before, wondering what I was doing wrong, she said, "I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I am beginning to think that stones are extremely common. The difference is that you and Jim pay attention to your animals and recognize something is wrong."

Erin8607
Knee Deep

Post   » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:59 am


I've had three pigs with stones now, that I've noticed at least. I have mostly females and I wonder how many may pass one or two here or there without me ever noticing. Faith had small stones, just plentiful in numbers and she was able to pass a good deal of them. However, she was never a canidate for surgery so they eventually got the best of her. She had pain and blood, with the multiple small stones. I can't believe Bayleigh and Ruby with these honkers and NEVER a single cry or spot of blood from them. They just lodge at the end of their urethra's and stay, then I'm left with just feeling a hard knot there. Something I'd never notice if I didn't do their little once-over's to check for unusual lumps. Grrrrr.

User avatar
Jennicat

Post   » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:09 am


rshevin, in people certain bacteria cause kidney stones because something that they do drastically alters the acidity of the urine and makes a certain type of stone more able to develop... I wonder if it's similar for pigs.

Nhburritt

Post   » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:57 pm


The study was completed and published in JAVMA, Vol 234, No. 2, January 15, 2009. Results were "contrary to findings of other studies, urinary calculi were most commonly composed of 100% calcium carbonate......treatments including diet and husbandry practices should be developed to help prevent development of calcium carbonate calculi in guinea pigs."

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:07 pm


I'm sorry to say the results of this study do not sound very helpful. Using general guidelines for stone formation in other animals (diet-wise) for our guinea pigs, we still have some guinea pigs that form stones.

I wish this had been a more in depth study.

User avatar
TWP_2

Post   » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:09 am


I want to work on trans-urethral ultrasonic stone breaking probes. They exist, but need to be made smaller to work with GP (especially male) urethras.

If we can't prevent them, then let's make them easily treatable.

TwoWhitePiggies

Post   » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:29 pm


I suspect that until they did this study, they didn't really appreciate how many variables there could be: genetics, water sources, vegetables, pellets, vets, antibiotics, etc.

Perhaps several more focused studies will come out of this.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:09 am


I just received a copy of the report from a friend of mine this morning, but don't know how to upload/link to it from here at home. It's in PDF format. (help?)

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:41 am


I forgot that I have a "grou.ps" site that I was playing around with last month. It allows upload of files for sharing:
http://grou.ps/this_little_piggie/files

TwoWhitePiggies

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:37 pm


I also got a copy of the report. I read through it going, "One of those four Abby pigs was my Sully!" I will have to print it out and send it to my vets with a thank-you note for their part in participating in the study.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:58 pm


That's cool! It would be great if we got a hard (official) link to the study report that we could use from here.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:54 pm


Lynx -- if you want me to, I can email the report to you tomorrow from work (our AOL dial-up here at home is brutal). Then maybe you can house it somewhere fairly permanent with a link (and delete my post to avoid confusion).

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:19 pm


I was able to access the file. It's not a question of copying it here but whether or not we could have permission to have it here (or find a link to it elsewhere).

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:37 pm


I'll ask my source if we can have permission to do so. Her boss is a colleague of Dr. Hawkins.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:54 am


If you can get permission, it would be most helpful to have the person giving it email me directly so I can keep it on file (I think you have my email).

User avatar
rshevin

Post   » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:17 pm


Lynx, if the journal is published free online there's no reason you can't link to it. If the publisher says it must be paid for then not even the author can authorize distribution.

User avatar
rshevin

Post   » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:25 pm


The abstract is here:
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.234.2.214

You will not be able to post full text. Technically Sef shouldn't even pass around her copy via email. Unfortunately with papers copyright belongs to the publisher, not the author.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:00 pm


Thanks so much, rshevin. This is what I was looking for (a legit link).

We could do a more detailed summary, referencing the paper legitimately.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:29 pm


Technically Sef shouldn't even pass around her copy via email.
I'm not passing it around via email. And I removed it from my site, since I didn't mean for it to create any hullabaloo here.

User avatar
TWP_2

Post   » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:56 pm


Ironically, any and all of us could go to a library that offers inter-library loan, and have our own copy of the paper from an academic library that owns it.

There's rules and regs on how many copies of articles can be made in a year, but rarely enforced (and usually there's another library that has the paper if the first one does not send it).

Post Reply
111 posts