Pelletless pellet??

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sef1268

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:24 pm


I'd also be very interested to know more about which pigs of ours have been on which pellets, and which have or have not developed stones.
I tried starting a GL Stone Pig discussion group on Yahoo (with a very informal database of stats for each affected pig), but nobody really took an interest. Of the few who did respond, all but one were fed Oxbow. Not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

I know I sound like a broken record, but there has to be a way for us to all come together and look for some commonalities to all of this stone stuff. I'm tired of sitting on my hands, waiting for somebody else to do it.

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:26 pm


Bug's Mom, yes it's a compressed pellet (as I understand it), but it's not a DIET. It's a supplement for those going pellet-less.

Hopefully she'll check in and clarify this.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:29 pm


For what it may be worth Sef-in relation to Oxbow, the last time Lady Bug was x-ray'd and ultrasounded (?) her bladder was clear with no stones or sludge. She has never had Oxbow pellets at all as she didn't like them. Would be interesting if you could find a correlation.

She will be 6 years old in June.

User avatar
WEAVER
one pig at a time.

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:31 pm


I also thought KM was talking about a supplimental pellet. I think it would be great to be able to give them a one a day kind of thing. Almost like a multi-vitamin for pigs. Like if we could feed a "Critter Berry" in addition to their regular well balanced veggies and hay.


In response to your last comment Bugs Mom, Natasha is seven years old, was feed Hartz food for four years before I took her in. Since I have had her she has been fed Oxbow in a herd environment (no telling who is eatting how much) and when she had her x-ray she also had no stone formation.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:45 pm


I think the horse people could give us some insight into diet.

There are links in the guide to the USDA requirements (I wonder if they've been updated? not the best source but one of the few)

http://www.guinealynx.info/nutrition_links.html

See the Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals.
Feeds are based on these numbers.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:11 pm


I was just throwing out info Weaver. I don't know how relevant any of it is at this point.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:26 pm


I am still very open to the idea of developing some sort of supplementation for people wanting to go pelletless.

It could be a pellet, or powder, or a treat/snack of some kind that had the recommended daily amounts of nutrients.

Here is my problem: Most mills that are willing to make me whatever I want are requiring a 1 ton minimum purchase.

Now, I go through 1 ton of Timothy Choice every 3 weeks or so and about the same of the Alfalfa Complete. But there is NO WAY I can go through a ton of supplemental pellets in a year, and the vitamins and minerals would degrade. I have about 200 days (maybe a bit longer) before the vitamins and things start to degrade.

So I would be tossing out a huge amount of past date product. This is where my problem lies.

I think perhaps we would be on a better road if we could find some kind of snack or treat (think Critter Berries) that would contain all the necessary ingredients. I would like it to be something that could also be ground up, perhaps, for those pigs that are sick and not eating well, but I could leave that to Critical Care and just focus on a nutrient supplement that would be for pelletless pigs. It would need to be a once a day thing, as alot of vitamins are water soluble and therefore needed on a daily basis.

I'm open for suggestions and feedback. This initial thread just seemed to go no where and there didn't seem to be a reason to pursue a possibly spendy undertaking for a handful of pigs. Not that it is not necessary, but just not feasible for me to do.

User avatar
WEAVER
one pig at a time.

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:32 pm


I think it would be great to be able to give them a one a day kind of thing. Almost like a multi-vitamin for pigs. Like if we could feed a "Critter Berry" in addition to their regular well balanced veggies and hay.

That is exactly what I was wanting KM :P

NancyO

Post   » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:48 am


Bug's Mom - just out of curiosity what pellets have you been feeding Lady Bug? Or was she never fed pellets? I have a stone pig twice over and feel like I am walking on thin ice. I have cut the Oxbow pellets in half, but then when I do that their water consumption goes down - sheesh.

Thanks,
Nancy

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:19 am


Daily "treat" supplement would be awesome. What would be the next step?

User avatar
somechick

Post   » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:22 am


All three of my current pigs are on Oxbow and none, as of this writing, have stones.

However, Sanford isn't a big pellet eater. I fill his bowl on Saturday morning and I bet I could leave it there all week and it would never be completely empty. She's stable in weight and eats mostly hay and veggies.

Henry and Dudley share a cage so I don't know who's doing most of the scarfing, but I fill their bowl in the mornings before work and when I get home from the office, it's nearly wiped clean. Dudley doesn't seem to have any issues. Henry doesn't have stones, but she does have constant bladder (crying, bleeding) problems.

But like others have said. My pigs would kill me in my sleep if I didn't give them their pellets. They might let me live if I swapped the pellets out with critterberries though. :)

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:59 am


NancyO. Lady Bug was about 1 1/2 months old when I got her and has always had pellets. She is a funny little girl who never, ever, liked timothy ANYTHING! I kept her on a brand of plain alfalfa pellets (don't remember which one now) as well as hay. Believe me, we fought many a battle over what kind of food she'd get. She would boycott any timothy product and just eat her lettuce. Not great so I'd go back to alfalfa.

When she was almost 4 years old I switched her to Oxbow orchard hay but she would not touch their tim pellets. Turns out she does not like licorice.

I took a chance on KM's tim pellets and she loves them. She only gets 1/8 to 1/4 cup per day and there's usually a little left in the bowl, but not much.

My own unscientific opinion on why she does not have stones is something in her genetic make-up. I wish I knew what it was and could bottle it for all the stone pigs out there. Heart problems are bad enough, but stones are really terrible.

NancyO

Post   » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:44 pm


Thanks Bugs Mom for the info. My boys are 4 1/2 years now and have been on Oxbow Cavy Cuisine since I got them when they were just a few months old. Oreo has had two stones, but I am thankful there was 3 1/2 years between them. Guinea has been on Oxbow all of his life and no stones (knock on wood) for that boy - though he has had crystals.

My boys would kill for Oxbow. They just aren't that thrilled with KM's. Why on earth that would be is beyond me - her pellets smell fresh and wonderful. Could be that they are just creatures of habit since they've been on Oxbow all of their lives.

Anyway - I don't want to hijack this thread just was curious about the pellets since I am paranoid. Thanks again for the info.

Nancy

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:59 pm


>>I have cut the Oxbow pellets in half, but then when I do that their water consumption goes down <<

Oxbow pellets have a LOT of salt. About 3 times as much as mine have. Hence the reason for the additional water consumption. Mine have a miniscule amount. For about 2 years, I was adding no salt to them at all, but looking further into nutrition, it seemed necessary to add a tiny bit.

For those of you that have not tried the Timothy Choice pellets since I switched mills (October) , you may give it another shot. They are now smaller and also have a bit of salt, which will attract the pigs who may have been hesitant in the past.

sef, I will look into the next steps and post what I find here.

User avatar
WEAVER
one pig at a time.

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:09 am


I fed the pigs their veggies a little later tonight to see if they would be ok with that and not have pellets this evening. They screamed their heads off until I caved. Having a pellet free diet should be very interesting :P

KM, I have about twenty more pounds of pellets. I will give yours a try when it comes time to reorder. I am excited to try the new ones. I loved the smell and color of your old ones, but I have so many old pigs that are stuck in their ways and they did not want anything to do with the large harder pellets you have previously. Hopefully this time they will adjust and have more of an open mind seeing they are a smaller pellet.

slavetofuzzy
4 the Good of all Pigs

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:47 am


WEAVER, we will be having some KM pellets at the picnic next month. You can bid on a package and try them before ordering a bunch! ;)

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:55 am


Yes, the new, smaller Kleenmama timothy pellets are a HUGE hit with my boys. I ran out last week and had to start substituting w/ Oxbow, and our guys have not been pleased. Henry won't even touch the Oxbow. Luckily I found some of the older Kleenmama pellets in the back of the cabinet, so he's getting those for now and the others are making do with Cavy Cuisine. Yay on getting paid today, so I can order more of the "good" stuff! :)

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WEAVER
one pig at a time.

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:04 am


Wonderful slavetofuzzy. That is a perfect idea! Thank you.

StealthBomber

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:07 am


HerdDaddy & I are feeding Stealth the Cavy Performance (she's still an ickle thing) and sometimes she goes to town on these and sometimes she can take or leave them. We've read (on this site!) that pellets are necessary, and that Oxbow is right up there with KM's, and recommended by our vet - Avian & Exotic (no disrespect to KM - are there local vendors of your product, or are you online-based only?) is this not the case? we feed her a variety of fresh greens/green pepper/cucumber/corn husks/hay/orange/etc. to keep her interested, is it safe to give a pelletless diet?

User avatar
sef1268

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:04 pm


For what it's worth, I can get Oxbow pellets locally for a huge discount and sometimes even for free (it's a barter arrangement with the owner of the small pet food shop in town--I maintain her website), but I'd STILL rather order Kleenmama's pellets and have them shipped from Washington State to Indiana. To me, there is no comparison between the quality of her pellets vs. Oxbow, and between her hay and Oxbow's dusty, pokey hay (which I do still reluctantly get locally).

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