Pelletless pellet??

NancyO

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:34 pm


KM - that is interesting about the salt. I had a hunch they were saltier because they drink a truckload of water when I give 1/2c of Oxbow pellets between the two boys. And thus my dilemma. Since Oreo is a stone pig I know the more water he drinks the better, but the salt content makes me nervous.

And I still think they are just reluctant to change because they have been on Oxbow for 4 1/2 years. To me there is no comparison between your pellets and Oxbow's. Your pellets make ME want to eat them LOL. I think my boys are just stubborn little brats.

Nancy

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:18 pm


I was doing some Googling on my lunch hour today about kidney stones and a high-sodium diet in humans. From what I could tell, there does seem to be a strong correlation. I want to do more research on it this weekend.

No expert by any stretch, but I'd think some sort of diuretic would be safer, when warranted, for upping fluid consumption rather than having too much sodium in the diet-? As Kleenmama pointed out to me in an email today, too much sodium can also be bad for the heart and cause/contribute to hypertension. As she said, with as many "heart" pigs as we're seeing these days, the excess sodium in Oxbow can't be a good thing for that, either.

slavetofuzzy
4 the Good of all Pigs

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:48 pm


Maybe we can also lobby Oxbow to change their formulary?

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:34 pm


Oxbow is a top quality pellet. For those of you feeding them, don't feel bad about it! They are what I tried to achieve when making my own.
Having said that, the more research I do, the more I am happy that I have such a tiny amount of sodium in my pellets. Too much salt in ANY animal is not a good thing (unless maybe you are a sea creature).

I think the extra sodium creates a false thirst, NancyO. It's like us when we eat a ham dinner. I am thirsty all night after, but it is just making up for what the salt took out. Would there be some way you could reduce the pellet intake and up the wet veggies? When I have sick pigs, frequently they go off everything except the fresh veggies, and when that happens, I wet them down to dripping and they still eat them. Sometimes saves me having to subcue.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:11 am


Sef - that is very interesting. Can you show me the link?

slavetofuzzy - I have contacted Oxbow about this before, but they didn't bother to answer. But I guess if they got many letters they would perhaps listen?

kleenmama - I am very glad you don't put more than a tiny amount of salt in your pellets! I whish there was a way to get them to Europe...

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:13 pm


I'm also glad you don't use a lot of salt. Lady Bug gets quite enough in her normal food sources.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:13 pm


There is no one link; I found dozens of references to reducing salt intake if you're prone to kidney stones. Just Google "sodium AND kidney stones." You should find quite a few sites.

Raeraeverret

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:08 pm


I would absolutely love this!! My boys are so picky that they actually dig all of the pellets out of their food! So I end up wasting a good bit of the bag. I'm sure no matter how expensive it would be, I'd save money in the long run. :-)

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:07 pm


What kind of pellet are you using, Raeraeverret?

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poppypiggy

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:05 pm


Thank you for the search tip, Sef. I'll read up on this.

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:33 pm


This is just one typical example, from a men's health website citing possible causes of calcium-based stones (emphasis mine):
Excessive sodium. Calcium absorption in the kidney tubules follows the absorption of sodium and water. High urinary levels of sodium then results in increased levels of calcium. Defects in the kidney tubules transport system can cause imbalances in sodium and phosphate that result in elevated calcium in the urine. A high salt diet can also produce this effect.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:05 pm


Thank you for that link, Sef. I also did a search on sodium AND bladder stone, and found a lot of links. It seems that it sometimes is possible to dissolve stones in dogs with diet and antibiotics http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=545988, but I have no idea if this could be used in pigs. And if so, what diet would be appropriate?

I must admit, though, that I find this field very complicated, and my head is near to spin when I try to get the essence out of all these articles. Some of them even seem to partly contradict each other! Time to get to bed soon, I guess, but I will read more tomorrow.

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sef1268

Post   » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:41 pm


poppypiggy, that article is referring to struvite stones; most guinea pig stones are calcium carbonate and, sadly, aren't dissovable (at least, not that anybody is aware of).

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:24 pm


most guinea pig stones are calcium carbonate and, sadly, aren't dissovable
Unless Actigall actually does work - which is at least a possibility.

slavetofuzzy
4 the Good of all Pigs

Post   » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:50 am


Ozzy's stone got bigger during our Actigall trial. Maybe if you catch the stones early and small it may work.

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rshevin

Post   » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:21 am


I thought Actigall affected sphincters and smooth to promote passing stones and it was Polycitra that may aid in dissolution??

slavetofuzzy
4 the Good of all Pigs

Post   » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:22 am


Shillintong relaxes and promotes passing stones. Actigall is thought to dissolve and it MAY in some cases. Just not mine. Sadly.

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Katrina
For the love of pigs!

Post   » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:58 pm


My understanding is that Polycitra is believed to aid in prevention, not in dissolution.

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