Pet stores improving?

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:07 pm


What focus groups, sales records, customer feedback, etc. do you have as proof that your small animals sales have totally detracted from PetSmart's, as opposed to independent sales, rather than it just being an optimistic thought?

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:13 pm


Also, another issue to consider: How many small, family owned petstores are there in the country?

I know there's one on my street. It's a pretty common industry. So these thousands of family owned petstores, all buying animals from backyard breeders--none of them are adding to the homeless animal populations?

Or just yours isn't?

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Froggieflies

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:14 pm


Cheshire, I'm not very sure thats a safe topic to get into even on an off-topic thread, very dangerous issues.

I was just sort of thinking out loud, sorry about the off-topic post. *hangs head*

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:15 pm


You "may" be making a slight dent in Petsmart's sales but you're still taking away homes from already existing needy and homeless guinea pigs with your purpose bred pigs, "healthy" or not.

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Cheshire Catfish

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:15 pm


"all objective logic points to it adding to the homeless animal population. I mean, basic fact-you purchase animals from a breeder. You're adding to the homeless animal population."

Do not make statements like "all objective logic points to my being right" and "my point is a basic fact" while ignoring my arguments to the contrary in my last post. If you're just going to sit there and state that I'm wrong without actually addressing my arguments, I'm going to start ignoring your posts too.




"Unless your staff is mind readers, you're sending "healthy" guinea pigs to some unhealthy homes for at least a portion of the sales."

You are making a valid point here, and I already conceded it earlier. We are not perfect. I can't guarantee that every person we sell a pig too is a perfect home. BUT, there are plenty of people we do filter out of the impulse-buying crowd, who would otherwise walk into petsmart and be sold a pig, no questions asked. If we stop ONE person who shouldn't have a pig from buying a pig, then we've improved something. And we stop plenty.

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Cheshire Catfish

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:18 pm


"you're still taking away homes from already existing needy and homeless guinea pigs with your purpose bred pigs, "healthy" or not."

No, we're not. Re-read my last few posts please. The people we sell animals to WOULD NOT otherwise adopt. They would otherwise buy from someone much worse, and not know how to take care of it.

Like I keep saying over and over, we suggest adoption to people, and the ones that are responsive to the idea do NOT walk out with animals.

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:20 pm


I didn't say all objective logic points to my being right, to be accurate. But it's just such a stumbling block. I mean for me it's just math.

To be a petstore, independent of any other petstore, is selling animals. Unaltered animals. That can breed. So many people on CL are posting having bred their petstore pigs.

"Do not make statements like "all objective logic points to my being right"" So, again, I didn't, and also, this is a little rude, ya know?

Edit: Also, I thought I had addressed your arguments, which were all in the nature of weeding out impulse buyers, by talking about how this was flawed logic. Sorry I didn't quote to make that clear.
Last edited by GuineaPinny on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:20 pm


Wouldn't they be subpar homes then? How do you know they are taking care of your sold animals? You keeping track how?

Are your animals priced lower than Petsmart?

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Cheshire Catfish

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:22 pm


"Also, another issue to consider: How many small, family owned petstores are there in the country?"

Lots! But most of them are just as bad as the big box stores, and many get their animals from the same mills.



"So these thousands of family owned petstores, all buying animals from backyard breeders--none of them are adding to the homeless animal populations?

Or just yours isn't?"

I'm making a distinction between the shops who treat animals well, educate people, and filter out bad homes, and the ones who don't. Please do not lump our store in with lots of other stores whose activities are very different, just because we're the same size. I can't say what the exact effects are of a thousand stores with a thousand different policies. I can only talk about what my store does and does not do.... I won't make sweeping generalizations like you are.

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:24 pm


But many of them aren't. I mean that was your original point, right? To ask us to consider stores like your families'.

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Cheshire Catfish

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:26 pm


"Wouldn't they be subpar homes then? How do you know they are taking care of your sold animals? You keeping track how?"

I already addressed this exact point. Please re-read my earlier posts.



"Are your animals priced lower than Petsmart?"

No, but lots of people end up at our shop first for a variety of reasons- our location, maybe they buy their dog food here, because they got good advice from us in the past, etc.

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Cheshire Catfish

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:28 pm


"But many of them aren't. I mean that was your original point, right? To ask us to consider stores like your families'."

"Small family owned store" does not mean "store like ours."

Sure, if there's another store that operates exactly like ours, then their effect is the same. But what's the point of making that statement?

I never said stores like ours were any kind of majority. We're definitely in the minority here. My point was that sweeping generalizations like "all pet stores that sell animals are terrible" aren't fair and may not always be productive.

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:35 pm


Because I'm wondering whether you're on here to defend "good petstores" or your family's petstore.

Looking at your family's petstore in a larger economic picture, if you'll allow me to do that for a moment, I don't think it would be considered generalizing, all of these "good petstores" that patronize backyard breeders, thinking they are stealing business from Petsmart...

Petsmart doesn't patronize backyard breeders. Petsmart patronizes mills, as you brought up earlier. If you didn't patronize the backyard breeder in your area, who knows if they would even have a market to breed to. Your dents in Petsmart's profits are probably infinitesimal.

But all of the "good petstores" patronizing backyard breeders? Let's say just a hundred "good petstores" patronizing a hundred different backyard breeders. How many litters is that?
And at a 20% mortality rate per sow, according to the ACBA? And with the Roan and Dal genes being hidden, how many lethals born? How many guinea pigs brought into this country to the "good petstores" while they're being euthanized in the Animal Controls down the street.

I run a blog of adoptable guinea pigs. I have to update euthanized guinea pigs every day as "no longer available"

Let me put it this way. You're not part of the solution.

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:37 pm


Oh, and then some of the not so perfect homes that slip through the screening process, and then they start breeding? Show up on Craigslist? Or at the shelter? Or at the park? Don't forget them.

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Froggieflies

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:38 pm


happyface, if your still reading this thread, did you find a guinea pig(s) to adopt yet?

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:38 pm


Good points.

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lisam

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:43 pm


Man, if I could find a pet store to work with that would offer my rescue pigs for adoption (instead of selling breeder pigs and other small animals), I'd go for it. I would send all my adopters there. I would totally endorse that shop, and buy all my pet supplies there. It would be such a cool thing.

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GuineaPinny

Post   » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 pm


Thanks sus.

We have an amazing supply only store that opened up recently and I lauded it on the rescue listserve. It was opened up by MOMs and it's called Mighty Healthy Pet, in College Park, MD. Oxbow and Carefresh.

There is definitely a socially conscious group that shops exclusively there, who I imagine were getting a lot of stuff shipped beforehand.

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Cheshire Catfish

Post   » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:11 am


"Because I'm wondering whether you're on here to defend "good petstores" or your family's petstore."

I'm defending my family's petstore, because I don't have enough information about other petstores to judge them. My point was just that my family's store is good, therefore not all stores are bad.



"Petsmart doesn't patronize backyard breeders. Petsmart patronizes mills, as you brought up earlier. If you didn't patronize the backyard breeder in your area, who knows if they would even have a market to breed to. Your dents in Petsmart's profits are probably infinitesimal. "

See my earlier analogy about cars. We do NOT increase the total number of animals that are bred on purpose, we just move a certain number of births from a death camp factory to the "backyard" of somebody who gives their breeders a decent life. That's not a final solution, but it is an improvement.

AND we discourage the people who really shouldn't have an animal from buying one (not that we catch all, but petsmart would have caught none, so it still reduces the number of homeless animals generated later).

AND we promote adoption to people we would otherwise not even get a chance to talk to (not that we can talk everyone into it, but if we talk one person into it that would otherwise have not thought about it because they went to petsmart, that's one less homeless animal).



"And at a 20% mortality rate per sow, according to the ACBA? And with the Roan and Dal genes being hidden, how many lethals born? How many guinea pigs brought into this country to the "good petstores" while they're being euthanized in the Animal Controls down the street."

And that's worse then what happens at the breeding mills? Remember what I keep saying: we only sell to the people who would otherwise buy at petsmart.
Also remember that I'm talking about our store, not a huge group of stores I don't know enough about to judge: is that 20% mortality rate one single breeder who provides good healthcare to their animals? Or a national average that includes a bunch of abusive breeders who we wouldn't deal with?

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:17 am


How do you know how many are bred? The ones that end up in pet stores vs. how many are living/bred/ die in the breeders' is likely a minute number.

Unless you have those numbers, plus the local guinea pig adoption stats, you can't solidly say anything about it. You don't know if those people you turn away are just running to another pet store or what's solidly happening to the animals you sell.

The 20% mortality rate holds true for every pregnant sow. Mass or small breeder or accidental litter.

Do you sell tiny pet store cages or carry supplies to make C&C cages? Do you only sell one gender of guinea pig? At what age are they sold? And guarantee they are not pregnant when sold?

What does your breeder do with their old stock once they can no longer be bred? How are their animals housed?
Last edited by sus4rabbitsnpigs on Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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