Candy - weightloss

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:27 am


Piggy's urine was much closer to pH. Also negative for glucose.

Now I wish I still worked in the lab so I could sneak a minute on the digital pH meter.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:33 am


The following is from this site about diseases of guinea pigs. Bold added by me.

http://netvet.wustl.edu/species/guinea/gpigs.txt

Clinical signs of ketosis include anorexia, adipsia, weight loss of 12-18% within
96 hours, hypoglycemia, lipemia, ketonemia, ketonuria, urine pH 5-6 (normal is 9),
clonic spasms of voluntary muscles, coma, and death (in 4-5 days unless interrupted
by parturition).

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:42 am


Becky - you're a genius.

So Candy has a perfect ph - just a bladder full of stones.

Hmm, what to do now.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:50 am


I'd still be extremely curious to know why your vet wants to lower the ph.

I have a vet appointment this weekend. I think I'll ask him about this.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:52 am


Becky, let me know what your vet says - it would be interesting to know.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:57 am


Becky, how reliable do you think that reference is, though? In the same paper it mentions cavies needing 5mg per day to prevent scurvy - which sounds a little low to me.

I think we need to double check on the ph.

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:02 am


I can tell you the university that published that paper (16 years ago) is attached to a major research hospital for humans but has no veterinary program. Maybe it's in one of Josephine's books.

Edit: I wonder if it was written by a pathology student? PAT 707 looks like a course number for a graduate level class. Also "winter quarter" is mentioned. Said university hasn't been on the quarter system in ages.

Edit2: Please note I do not mean to imply that old=bad because there are many old references that are far superior to those currently in print.
Last edited by rshevin on Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:05 am


I wasn't doubting that!

But we've seen many times varying 'norms' published in various reliable texts. So sometimes it helps to have second, and even third texts to back up the information.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:09 am


Here's another reference from a vet. Have no idea how knowledgeable he is, but he also says 9 is normal.

http://www.2ndchance.info/gpreprodprobs.htm

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:13 am


Thanks, Becky.

But this is interesting if Rshevins pigs have a lower ph, no?

I have to get some ph strips now and test all my pigs!

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Maja

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:31 am


As far as I know, normal pH is 9, that's what my vet told me too.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:37 am


I imagine if they're OTC strips, there might be a slew of variables. I would be suspect of a base ph on guinea pig urine as their urine is alkaline.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:56 am


I am betting you might be able to use fish water testing kits to determine the ph.

Would be great if we had some scientifically minded people who could do some tests on their pigs to get some sort of idea of the actual ranges (and if it is different for pigs with some sorts of problems or on different medications).

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:12 am


The strips I have are manufactured by a scientific supply company, Whatman. They're left over from my hands on science kit from way back when. A possibly more accurate deterimination may be made with red cabbage juice. I've always found it easier to read than these durn strips. Any non-digital method I've ever heard of isn't going to get you a value more accurate than 1 pH unit though. That's just the nature of the beast.

One variable could be that my pigs had just finished eating when I tested them. This week's diet is green leaf and green beans.

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Becky

Post   » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:49 pm


I asked my vet today what the normal urine ph was for guinea pigs. He said between 8.5 and 10, so it looks like Candy's ph is spot on.

He also said struvite crystals are so rare that without knowing the composition of the stones, he'd never try to lower the urine ph.

Hope this helps.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:16 pm


Thanks, Becky - that's very helpful.

One of the things it says in the info slip that came with the Polycitra-K I picked up today is that it lowers ph, making the urine more acidic.

So, my thought is this: does this stuff really help guinea pigs? Since somewhere recently there was a mention about acidic urine being not good, is this stuff actually helpful for guinea pigs?

I haven't used it yet.

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Becky

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:16 am


It does? That's not the information I have. Here's a link to the Mar Vista site. It explains polycitra quite well, including the fact that it makes the urine more alkaline.

www.marvistavet.com/html/canine_oxalate_bladder_stones.html

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Becky

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:20 am


Here's another link from a drug site.

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/polycitra_k_solution.html

Polycitra-K Solution is a urinary alkalinizing agent. It neutralizes some of the acid in your urine, which reduces the formation of crystals in your urine that could become kidney stones or aggravate gout.

The information you received is incorrect. Did you get it from the vet or a human pharmacy?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:49 am


Ok, I must not have had my glasses on, because now that I re-read it I wonder where on earth I read what I read before :-p

From the Patient Information Leaflet (human pharmacy):

"The medication makes the urine less acidic. It is used to treat and prevent the formation of kidney stones and gout."

It also says, which is interesting:

"While taking this medication, it may be necessary for you to test the pH (acidity) of your urine using special paper. The pH will help determine the proper dose.'

So, this makes me think that if a guinea pig has a pH of 9, then it would be wrong to give Polycitra - no?

I have absolutely no idea what I was reading before - apologies!

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:22 am


I read back on all the old threads about Polycitra. It looks as if it has an effect on calcium carbonate stones, none on struvite - but most importantly it does no harm even if it's not effective. Also that it doesn't change the pH of gp urine.

With that in mind I started Candy on it tonight. I gave her 0.15cc in 1.5ccs of water - she seemed to like it! I gave her a little piece of red pepper first so her stomach was full.

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