Serena, wasn't it Torb Louie had that sedated him so well?
Sorry amy, I just saw this now. Yes, you are right. It was a big dose of Torb. I'm pretty sure that is what Chewie got in the end, too.
I agree with Cindy and Capybara regarding both. I don't care how much extra that would cost because it would be worth it.
Euthanasia Methods
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mkkayla
- Supporter in '14
I had a feral cat I had to euthanize. Normally, my dogs and cats get an IV stick of the euth fluid alone. In all but one instance, they've gone quietly and peacefully. There was no way we were going to be able to IV stick Candy, so the vet gave her valium first SQ or IM (I can't remember). After she was asleep from that he gave her the other stuff IV. I really think I will ask for it to be done that way from now on. To heck with the extra cost.
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AliceMcmallis
- Supporter in '08
I didn't read this whole thread but wanted to contribute my thoughts. My current vet has done both an IM sedative as well as gas via a mask (as opposed to some sort of box structure).
There are pros and cons to both - personally I prefer the IM sedative as it's just a moment of pain/discomfort which is quickly forgotten, and you can be with the pet talking to and stroking him/her. The gas can cause them to struggle which is uncomfortable for me. Also, a lot of vets won't let you be with your pet while they're being gassed because of regulations (I'm not allowed out back with my current vet, but have experienced it with other vets).
But some animals don't do well with injections and it can be difficult for the owner as well. I have had a rat put to sleep who was very difficult to inject IM, he had to be poked a couple of times and he squeaked. Within seconds he was relaxed and and giving kisses and I could see that he was not stressed, but it was difficult at first.
I believe that an animal being sedated with gas before the euthanasia injection should always remain on the gas until the injection is actually completed, so that there is not the chance of them waking up. That is one reason the experienced vets I know use a mask for gas sedation rather than a box. I could be wrong though?
There are pros and cons to both - personally I prefer the IM sedative as it's just a moment of pain/discomfort which is quickly forgotten, and you can be with the pet talking to and stroking him/her. The gas can cause them to struggle which is uncomfortable for me. Also, a lot of vets won't let you be with your pet while they're being gassed because of regulations (I'm not allowed out back with my current vet, but have experienced it with other vets).
But some animals don't do well with injections and it can be difficult for the owner as well. I have had a rat put to sleep who was very difficult to inject IM, he had to be poked a couple of times and he squeaked. Within seconds he was relaxed and and giving kisses and I could see that he was not stressed, but it was difficult at first.
I believe that an animal being sedated with gas before the euthanasia injection should always remain on the gas until the injection is actually completed, so that there is not the chance of them waking up. That is one reason the experienced vets I know use a mask for gas sedation rather than a box. I could be wrong though?
Cindy: Oral sedatives normally wont be able to put an animal down all the way so they would still feel the poke of an IM injection, therefore, not very useful.
Alice: Mask and box does the same thing... sometimes the box upsets them less because there isnt someone holding this thing up to their face (which is part of the upset besides the smell of the gas).
Iso leaves the body quickly, which is why some of you experienced your pig waking up during the heart stick. Its one of the benefits (but in your case, down falls) of using iso. I believe it is still the anest. gas used on people... though I have heard they are starting to use a detrivative of iso now. It is quick to enter and quick to leave the body.
In most cases, you won't be able to have the animal masked and euthanized if oyu want to watch. Most places have regulations against allowing clients into the treatment area, where the gas machines are. Plus because the patient is being masked rather than intubated, there is the chance for gas leak, which leads to potential regulation violations.
Alice: Mask and box does the same thing... sometimes the box upsets them less because there isnt someone holding this thing up to their face (which is part of the upset besides the smell of the gas).
Iso leaves the body quickly, which is why some of you experienced your pig waking up during the heart stick. Its one of the benefits (but in your case, down falls) of using iso. I believe it is still the anest. gas used on people... though I have heard they are starting to use a detrivative of iso now. It is quick to enter and quick to leave the body.
In most cases, you won't be able to have the animal masked and euthanized if oyu want to watch. Most places have regulations against allowing clients into the treatment area, where the gas machines are. Plus because the patient is being masked rather than intubated, there is the chance for gas leak, which leads to potential regulation violations.
Thank you Serena, I will keep that in mind. Nevy went into an iso box. I had no idea how it would be done, because I did not ask. This discussion is very important. I can't stand to think of him running about in the box in his last moments. In my heart I feel I let him down for not educating myself.
I poured my heart into getting him well, hand-feeding for 3 months and spending alot of money on surgery and chiro visits, and I would have spent more if he could have been saved, and it broke my heart just like I know people here who have gone through it feel. I just chickened out when it came to asking about euthansia methods.
When I brought him in for his check-up he had lost more weight and we decided to do it then and there. I held him for quite awhile, he chirped softly, but I had to hand him over. When I saw the box, I knew I couldn't watch that. I asked if he would be scared and my vet said, they do get agitated a bit.
Next time, I will be there. I will ask for some for of sedation before the heart stick, not an iso box. I just wish I would have had the courage then
I poured my heart into getting him well, hand-feeding for 3 months and spending alot of money on surgery and chiro visits, and I would have spent more if he could have been saved, and it broke my heart just like I know people here who have gone through it feel. I just chickened out when it came to asking about euthansia methods.
When I brought him in for his check-up he had lost more weight and we decided to do it then and there. I held him for quite awhile, he chirped softly, but I had to hand him over. When I saw the box, I knew I couldn't watch that. I asked if he would be scared and my vet said, they do get agitated a bit.
Next time, I will be there. I will ask for some for of sedation before the heart stick, not an iso box. I just wish I would have had the courage then
I have never had any of my rodents "stuck in the heart." They have all been IP injections. One GP had an IP injection without iso and there was very little pain involved and he just drifted off to sleep then slowly passed away. Some were taken back for iso and then brought back to me for the injection so I could hold them while they drifted away.
It does take a little longer for this method, meaning they are in the twilight part where their heart is barely beating for a while, but it is less painful I believe and sounds less dreadful than this heart stick.
When the vet came to my house to euthanize my dog, he was in DIC and was really so far gone, they just gave him the pink stuff and I remember crying and asking over and over if it was going to hurt him. My vet assured me it would be painless, he would just go to sleep and he did. I don't know if it was truly painless or if it was because he was so sick. At the time there was a sense of relief that he was at peace finally after such a long struggle.
It does take a little longer for this method, meaning they are in the twilight part where their heart is barely beating for a while, but it is less painful I believe and sounds less dreadful than this heart stick.
When the vet came to my house to euthanize my dog, he was in DIC and was really so far gone, they just gave him the pink stuff and I remember crying and asking over and over if it was going to hurt him. My vet assured me it would be painless, he would just go to sleep and he did. I don't know if it was truly painless or if it was because he was so sick. At the time there was a sense of relief that he was at peace finally after such a long struggle.
Dont blame yourself. I have assisted countless euthanasias and seem various different methods and I simply didn't add one and one together regarding how our pigs are euthanized until recently.
Its one of those issues that are right in front of each of our faces but no one really sees it.
I assume "IP injection" is the liver stick? Never heard of it referred that way. Liver sticks tke longer because it is not directly in the blood stream. And in some cases, the liver is missed and the solution goes in the peritoneal cavity, giving it a SQ effect. It'll do the trick, just takes much longer.
Euthasol is a bartibuate overdose... think sleeping pills OD in humans. You just get so sedated that your heart stops and your brain shuts down.
Its one of those issues that are right in front of each of our faces but no one really sees it.
I assume "IP injection" is the liver stick? Never heard of it referred that way. Liver sticks tke longer because it is not directly in the blood stream. And in some cases, the liver is missed and the solution goes in the peritoneal cavity, giving it a SQ effect. It'll do the trick, just takes much longer.
Euthasol is a bartibuate overdose... think sleeping pills OD in humans. You just get so sedated that your heart stops and your brain shuts down.
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HollyT
- Get on your bike.
I did not have the same experience with the liver injection as you describe, Chunky. It was a very humane and fast way to go (with Dr. R doing it). Yes, dragonsl's experience was mine. I remember that 'twillight' period. It was very peaceful and gave me a chance to say goodbye.
Amy, if it's any consolation Kringle went into the iso box first and I don't remember him running around. He just didn't like the smell but it was over in a few seconds.
Amy, if it's any consolation Kringle went into the iso box first and I don't remember him running around. He just didn't like the smell but it was over in a few seconds.
Last edited by HollyT on Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't see too many liver sticks; the ones I have seen took a good 1-2 mins but didn't seem painful.
I wonder why it isnt done more often over heart sticks. I'm not so sure Dr R even does heart sticks.
EDIT:
Good point Holly. How much an animal struggles with the iso will vary. None of them like it but some wont struggle as much depending on how strong or weak. I have seen some go absolutely nuts while others look agitated but is quickly overtaken by the gas. It's hard to tell how they would react... which is why I suggest using an IM sedative. The reaction is pretty predictable; getting poked in the muscle will hurt, but it comes annd goes quickly.
I wonder why it isnt done more often over heart sticks. I'm not so sure Dr R even does heart sticks.
EDIT:
Good point Holly. How much an animal struggles with the iso will vary. None of them like it but some wont struggle as much depending on how strong or weak. I have seen some go absolutely nuts while others look agitated but is quickly overtaken by the gas. It's hard to tell how they would react... which is why I suggest using an IM sedative. The reaction is pretty predictable; getting poked in the muscle will hurt, but it comes annd goes quickly.
Last edited by ChunkyPiggies on Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AHH! We keep editing on each other. Yes, I'm not saying that a liver stick is painful (likely less so than a heart stick)... but because of the anatomy and the possibilty of the solution not hitting the liver at all, the process can take longer-- the twilight period you are referring to. :)
It is nice to be able to say goodbye... if the euthasol went IV or into the heart, the "twillight period" will take just a few seconds. Usually by the time the vet is done injecting the solution, the pet is gone.
It is nice to be able to say goodbye... if the euthasol went IV or into the heart, the "twillight period" will take just a few seconds. Usually by the time the vet is done injecting the solution, the pet is gone.
Holly, thank you. I only wish I would have stayed. Hopefully he just went to sleep right away. However, everyone who saw him always said how much spirit he had even though he was so skinny. (from 3.2 lbs. to 1.8). I hope it was fast.
When I went into the treatment room and saw the box, while holding Nevy to my chest, I just froze.
When I went into the treatment room and saw the box, while holding Nevy to my chest, I just froze.
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