Injectable Baytril dosage needed asap

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Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:17 pm


If he doesn't seem to be in pain, then he probably isn't. Take it slow and easy with your informal PT. He will let you know if something doesn't feel right, and he can probably tolerate a little more than you and Zac are comfortable doing right now. You'll grow into an in-between spot you both are comfortable with.

If you can get him up on a cart, I'll take a guess that his front foot folding over on his wrist will stop. He's not sure how to coordinate 'slide' with 'move front foot'.

What is he bedded on? Ours was on towels. They gave enough traction to (mostly) keep his feet from doing a lot of sliding.

chii
I Love Lucy

Post   » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:28 am


Benji's on Carefresh right now, but you're right... he gets more traction on towels. I put him on a towel on the counter for every feeding, and that's where we do his "physical therapy". That's also where I've seen him able to move himself any.

Now that he's figured out how to scoot a little, he's progressing insanely fast! Just since the last time I posted, he can now scoot himself several inches on the towel in just a couple of seconds. I can no longer turn my back on him for a minute for fear of him scooting right off the counter! (Before, he seriously couldn't move at all, so I'd plop him in the middle of the towel on the counter while I made up his food and meds and whatnot. Now I either have to carry him or stand right in front of him so I can put a hand in front of his face to block him.)

He's still not walking or even scooting in a terribly useful fashion yet, but damn(!), he's improving tons!

I'm off the next three days, so hopefully we can continue work on the cart... though at this rate, I wonder if he'll even need it by the time we have it completed. I can already see him developing a sort of "hop", though right now it's really more just a "scooty-slide" thing. His front legs are getting stronger as well. I'm absolutely amazed at how quickly he's adapting. I think he just needed to figure out a new way to move himself, and now that he has, he's modifying it and doing it more and more and therefore rebuilding his muscles.

If he's progressed this much in two or three days, I wonder how he'll be in two or three more weeks.

Edited to add that the main reason I'm bedding him on Carefresh over towels is because he sits in his waste so long, I worry that towels will hold the urine against him more. Of course, if he could move on towels, then perhaps he wouldn't sit in his waste as much, but I'm not quite comfortable switching him yet. He can move on the towel (not so much on the Carefresh), but he's not yet very good at it and tends to get "stuck". When I put him back in his cage, I have him positioned with hay, pellets, and water all within his reach. I'm worried that until he gets at least a little more agile, he'll move himself away from his necessities and end up stuck there for hours and hours while I'm at work. Those are my main reasons for keeping him on the Carefresh for now, though I really don't think he can move on it at all.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:58 pm


Sounds like your PT is working!! Good job. What you have described is exactly what you needed to do to help him.

When my husband and I were gone, our guy was put in a smaller enclosure on towels. We 1) changed the towels out 4, 5 or more times per day; 2) had piles of foods and water bottles everywhere, so he really couldn't move too far out of reach. We had holders rigged up practically floating in space with bungee cords, etc. etc. etc.

Fine if you can do it. If you're in a situation where neither Zac nor you can check on him for several hours, your method is probably better, at least for now. You could switch to towels when he regains enough mobility to reach stuff without getting stuck.

chii
I Love Lucy

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:43 pm


This is not good. Benji's been off the antibiotics for the URI for about two days and is suddenly lethargic, not eating, and breathing in a rather labored fashion. The odd thing is, his weight is almost the highest it's been, but he's definitely worse now even than he was this morning. He's rejecting my hand feeding... probably because no one wants to try to swallow stuff when they can't breathe well. He won't try to move anymore, either. Even just yesterday, he was trying to scoot off the counter when I was feeding him. He's gone downhill dramatically.

I went ahead and called in a refill for his TMS and started that this afternoon. I called Dr. Dan's office and left a message for him-- he's in surgery right now.

I don't really know what we can do for him except perhaps try a new antibiotic. Neither of the 24-hour clinics in the area sees exotics anymore. I'm sure they'd take him to put him on oxygen, but frankly, I don't trust them to hand feed him properly. I'm hoping Dr. Dan will maybe have a portable oxygen setup I can borrow for him. We have the small tanks at my clinic, but no portable options for putting together an oxygen chamber. I'm also hoping he'll have another antibiotic option for us to try. We already know Benji doesn't tolerate Baytril.

Having seen pigs with bad upper respiratory infections like this before, I'm extremely worried. Honestly, I'm worried about him making it to tomorrow.

I'm now mad at myself for not trusting my instincts and asking for a longer course of antibiotics. He looked much better towards the end of the antibiotic course, but I just had this feeling that it would come back. It will be so stupid for him to come so far with this back injury just to die of a URI.

I put him on a snuggle safe because he felt a little chilly, and propped him up in such a way that his nose is clear of anything-- he tends to lay with his face down on the floor of his cage because of the weakness in his front legs.

I gave up on hand feeding him for the moment until I talk to Dr. Dan. He's not really swallowing what I give him and I don't want to risk him aspirating anything. I'm encouraged that his weight is up, but I don't think it will stay that way without the hand feeding.

I'm really scared about what to do tonight. I kind of wonder if it's time to put him to sleep, but it seems so wrong to lose him over a stupid, stubborn URI.

Edit: God, just watching how he's breathing... I really feel like it may only make him suffer if I try to pursue treatment. Neither Loppy or Star made it when they had pneumonia, even with aggressive therapy at the 24-hour clinic on oxygen and in a nebulizer. But god... I don't want to lose him to a stupid infection! He was improving. He was on his way to learning to walk again.

I'm not making any decisions until I talk to Dr. Dan. He knows his stuff. Maybe if I'm lucky, he can see him this afternoon (they close in 3 hours) and give me a better assessment and prognosis. But my own instincts say that this is really, really not good.

I'm going to go start a hot shower and put him in the bathroom to try to make him more comfortable.

chii
I Love Lucy

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:58 pm


He's in the bathroom now on a blankie on the Snuggle Safe with the shower running hot. He did make a little effort to move just now, but god, he just looks so awful now. I can tell a huge difference in his eyes... they're not bright like they were yesterday. I have been giving him fluids twice a day to keep him hydrated.

Compared to some respiratory problems I've seen, he has minimal discharge and isn't sneezing at all... it's just his breathing that really bothers me. He's working way harder to breathe and definitely has some static-y noise to his breathing, especially when he tries to talk, which mostly comes out as a raspy whisper.

I'm afraid that Dr. Dan won't have any options besides the 24-hour clinic, and he'll think I'm an idiot if I reject that idea... but I've never had a pig survive up there, and every time I've left one there, they died alone in a strange place. Plus, I wasn't around to say "It's time, let's euthanize him." I always got the call after the fact saying the pig's heart stopped or something. I've always signed the authorization form to euthanize if they become agonal, but they've never done it. The pig has always just died on its own. It kind of makes me wonder if they're giving them enough attention there... like they didn't notice the pig was dying until after it was gone. I can't say for sure, but it bothered me a lot, and frankly, I don't think I trust them with my pigs anymore. I've seen their "exotics" wing, and it's completely separate from the rest of the ICU and treatment area. Even if they mean to check on them frequently, I know how busy ER hospitals get, and I just feel like my pigs there in the past must have been overlooked.

God. What do I do?

I also worry that perhaps I made a mistake by refilling the TMS. I just had my clinic call it in. If Dr. Dan thinks that isn't cutting it and wants to try a new antibiotic, we'll have to wait to dose him. When I called it in, he didn't look nearly as bad as he does now, so I thought that he just needed a longer course on the stuff. Maybe I shouldn't have given him a dose yet. But then again, with nothing else on hand to give him, it's probably better to have *something* in there working, even if it isn't strong enough to knock the problem out completely. When I got home and got him out to feed him and start the antibiotics, I just suddenly realized, "he needs this in his system 24 hours ago."

Edit: Wow, it's like a sauna in that bathroom. I took away the Snuggle Safe and opted to cut off the shower and turn on the fan simply because I can't have him getting heat stroke on me. I doubt the steam will last as long with the fan on, but I've gotta get some of the heat out. Once it cools off some, I'll cut the fan back off.

chii
I Love Lucy

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:49 pm


OK, here's what Dr. Dan had to say... any feedback is appreciated.

He agreed with me on the 24-hour clinics. He says that if I desperately think he needs O2 then to go to one particular ER clinic over the one I've been to before, but he understands my wanting to keep him at home. He think the shower/steam idea is a good one, and for now, he wants to keep him on the TMS, but for 21 days this time. He says this because he did respond last time, but it didn't clear up completely. He said to check back with him tomorrow and let him know how he's doing and to keep in touch so that we can change antibiotics if needed.

He took another look at Benji's x-rays from 2 weeks ago and said that his chest didn't have any abnormalities, and given that this just started getting worse in the last 24-48 hours, he thinks he might be OK once we get the antibiotics in his system. He said to bring him in for him to listen to his lungs if he's not sounding better, and to bring him in regardless before we go of the antibiotics again.

I'm still very worried, but I just checked on Benji, and he doesn't seem *too* bad. I just don't know. Dr. Dan also seemed to think that being vigilant with the pain control would help. I guess maybe he thinks part of the effort for the breathing is because he's painful on top of this infection? Since Benji is done with the Pred now, he wants me to restart Metacam on top of the Buprenex.

I work tomorrow, so I can take Benji in with me then and keep him on oxygen for the day if need be. I really just feel like if he can make it through the next 24 hours, we'll have a good shot at knocking out this infection.

I just love Dr. Dan... he never fails to make me feel better, though I still worry since he hasn't seen Benji. I got the impression that he didn't feel that there was much he could do for him right now except what we're already doing with the antibiotics and having me take him in to an ER clinic for oxygen therapy if need be. He said that he does have a nebulizer for giving medication, so if I feel like Benji isn't swallowing the meds, then to bring him in and they'll nebulize him. I do think he swallowed the ones I gave earlier. He wasn't active about it, but I made him chew on the syringe some, so I think he got it all in. I certainly hope so.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:56 pm


I really really really like Dr. Dan. "He agreed with me on the 24-hour clinics." I had a feeling he would.

I completely agree with his course of therapy and action.

chii
I Love Lucy

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:13 pm


I do feel like we're doing all we can... the only thing I would add is oxygen therapy, but I don't have means to do it at home, so it's one of those things where I have to decide "Can he make it without it?" I just have this awful feeling that if I left him at the ER clinic, I'd be getting a call that he passed away. If he *IS* going to get to the point of needing to be put to sleep, I guess I'd rather have to take him in in the middle of the night to do it than have him die alone in a 24-hour clinic because no one noticed that he became agonal.

I guess I'm just relying on my gut instinct here.

I sound awfully pessimistic, but I really do feel more optimistic now. I know I won't sleep well tonight, though. Even when I would get up to check on him before he got this bad, I was always afraid that I'd go in to find him dead. I'd hate myself forever if he died suffering and no one was there to take him in and have him put out of his misery.

It's hard to get too hopeful about this when I've seen so many pigs who did *not* look bad at all suddenly keel over dead. But I've also seen pigs recover miraculously from things that I never thought they would, so I just have to remember that.

It's so hard to have to make life or death decisions for a little animal, especially when none of the options available seem optimal.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:20 pm


In my opinion only -- if you get up several times during the night and check on him, and if you were (which of course I hope and pray not, but if you were) to find him gone, I would very seriously doubt he suffered ... and if so, certainly not for very long.

There is a lot to be said for the comfort of familiar surroundings; familiar sounds, odors; warmth, soft light.

I wouldn't worry about this decision just yet. I think you will know what to do (and just as importantly, what not to do) if that time comes.

chii
I Love Lucy

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:28 pm


Thank you. Your words echo a lot of my beliefs... if he were going to pass away on his own, I would want it to be in his home, in a place where is not surrounded by unfamiliar sounds and smells and dogs and cats and other scary things.

I also like to believe that I'll know when it's time to let him go. I knew with Mr. P. There are animals that come into the clinic and the owner is torn, but I know it's over for them. It's hard because I don't feel that way yet about Benji, but I also worry that my personal attachment could get in the way. I DON'T want to be one of those stupid owners who just won't let an animal go, even when it's obviously suffering and will not get better. This latest stuff with Benji has been really difficult in that respect because a lot of people would say that he has no quality of life or chance of having a good life again, but then I read your experiences and see little improvements in him, and I want to give him the chance to get better. If it becomes apparent that this will not happen, then yes, I will euthanize him... but so far, he's been making little improvements that keep me hoping. I truly think that any regular person would have put him to sleep by now, but I know that with aggressive care, there *is* hope. It just scares me when I think of all the people who are so blind to their pet's anguish. I really don't want to be one of those people who drags out a pet's life because I *think* I see hope when there really is none. That's part of why I write here... I try to be as honest as possible about his condition so that I can get honest feedback. It helps keep me grounded, if that makes sense.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:33 pm


It makes perfect sense. And I don't think you will be blinded by personal attachment, nor will you jump to a hasty conclusion.

Just listen to your gut, and don't try to talk yourself out of, or in to, anything.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:36 pm


For what it's worth: I think Benji is in the right place - in your care.

I will be thinking of you two tonight, and hoping for the best.

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